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Final League Positions

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Pistacio View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 09:16

Final league positions for professional and community game for 2019/20 season confirmedFollowing the early end of the rugby season in England as a result of COVID-19, we're announcing the final league positions for the Greene King IPA Championship, Tyrrells Premier 15s and men’s and women’s community game.

Proposals from the RFU governance committee to conclude the season for those leagues at both professional and community level were yesterday ratified by the RFU Council.

It was agreed that final standings for the Greene King IPA Championship and men’s and women’s community game would be calculated on a best playing record formula maintaining promotion and relegation for those leagues. The Tyrrells Premier 15s season has been declared null and void as there is no promotion or relegation in this league. 

RFU President, Peter Wheeler, said: “We believe that the decisions made provide fair and balanced outcomes for the game and maintain the integrity of the competitions. We have listened to recommendations from the heart of the game and the approach has been ratified by the RFU Council. 

“This has been a difficult decision to make in the most unprecedented of circumstances. There is no single solution that will suit every club, but the approach taken is one that we believe best reflects the nature of league rugby in England.

“With 80% of the season complete for the community game, we believe our approach is fair and the right one for our leagues. We have clubs that are clear league leaders and worthy of promotion, but also other clubs who have said they would benefit from relegation, to play more meaningful rugby.”  

Final league tables will be available on the England Rugby website by 6pm, Friday 3 April. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote French Connection Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 09:20
Fair enough. Not exactly what I was expecting but an early decision, which is great.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 09:54
Applying average match points means that the majority of league tables will be unchanged.  The only impact would be if the lower-placed team had games in-hand and had a better average than the team above.
It'll be interesting to see what they do about play-offs - I'd guess they'd be scrapped completely, although there is the option to promote both teams and run with slightly larger leagues at the top and slightly smaller leagues at the bottom.  Having said that, could National One accommodate an extra two weekends?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 10:01
With only a C at GCSE maths (I've got whatever the number equivalent of dyslexia is - can never remember the name), I can't work out what that statement means (and I've got a post-grad arts degree so I can write English....).

Obviously no one on here has got access to the RFU's voodoo bones and chicken, but how does what they're doing actually work?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rugbychris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 10:07
I'm confused as well. Do they calculate bonus points? My Club are currently top of their division equal on points but with superior games won. Both clubs have 2 games left of the season to play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 10:09
Originally posted by rugbychris rugbychris wrote:

I'm confused as well. Do they calculate bonus points? My Club are currently top of their division equal on points but with superior games won. Both clubs have 2 games left of the season to play.

I'm guessing that they have to take a season average rather than last x games, so probably. God knows though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 10:20
The statement isn't absolutely clear, but I think it's simply average number of match points to-date.  So if you're level on points after 18 games you'd be level on points after 20 games, but at that point the secondary deciding factors such as games won will come into effect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sidelined Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 10:25
My personal view is that this is a decision forced on the RFU by the Saracens situation.

I don't think it the correct decision. Clubs, by the end of the lockdown, will have lost 3 months income, add to this the fact that, it is almost inevitable, that next seasons sponsorship levels are going to be greatly reduced. 

What I don't want to see is clubs going to the wall just because of Saracens. 

I would much preferred to see Saracens relegated, and the Premiership operate with 11 teams. And relegate the bottom side from each pertinent league. 

Saracens to Championship
YC to Nat 1
Hull to Nat 2 N 
Bottom club Nat 2 N to which ever league is pertinent.

As I  say just my thoughts (for what they're worth).




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 10:37
In the National leagues I do not believe it makes a material difference.

Cinderford move above Cambridge and Old Elthamians
Sheffield and Tynedale move ahead of Huddersfield.

I suspect Tonbridge will be promoted. As they are on 98 points to Fylde's 90.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 10:41
The statement does say relegation and promotion for the obvious ones as well!!

So Sarries should get relegated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 10:42
Mark W-J your formula sounds correct. That way they can work out a final points total for each team , at Nat 1 and 2, for 30 match league season. No need for a play off. The team second in Nat 2 N or Nat 2 S with the most league points gets promoted. If teams still with same number of points it will go to number of league wins, then bonus points, then points difference, then tries scored and eventually if required a 1 v 1 conker match....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donnyladinsheffield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 10:57
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

Mark W-J your formula sounds correct. That way they can work out a final points total for each team , at Nat 1 and 2, for 30 match league season. No need for a play off. The team second in Nat 2 N or Nat 2 S with the most league points gets promoted. If teams still with same number of points it will go to number of league wins, then bonus points, then points difference, then tries scored and eventually if required a 1 v 1 conker match....

With extra long string to ensure social distancing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 11:01
My opinion is scrap the play offs between Nat 2 teams as both 3 teams already know there fate seems fairest to me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 12:33
Well Level 5 is where my team play and on this basis they're relegated.  The start of this season was a dog's dinner for a while due to Birmingham & Solihill Bees collapse just before the start and the bunfight over Bromsgrove not wanting to be moved into the SW Premier due to the huge additional travel that would have been involved.  In all honesty a drop to Level 6 may help my club survive. It would have been over 3,000 miles of travel to complete our games this season, and that takes into account that the SW Premier only has 13 teams. RFU slashing funding next season was already a headache and securing sponsors is going to be an unenviable task.  Sadly I suspect there will be other clubs following Bees and Peterborough Lions into having to call a halt before the 2020/21 season starts...   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 12:53
As posted in Championship forum, the workings I've seen say that:

The average number of points (including Bonus Points) gained for all ‘Home’ games played up to 16th March was calculated.  This amount will be added to the Club’s points total for each outstanding ‘Home’ game.
The average number of points (including Bonus Points) gained for all ‘Away’ games played up to 16th March was calculated.  This amount will be further added to the Club’s points total for each outstanding ‘Away’ game.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 12:53
Originally posted by Dobber Dobber wrote:

Well Level 5 is where my team play and on this basis they're relegated.  The start of this season was a dog's dinner for a while due to Birmingham & Solihill Bees collapse just before the start and the bunfight over Bromsgrove not wanting to be moved into the SW Premier due to the huge additional travel that would have been involved.  In all honesty a drop to Level 6 may help my club survive. It would have been over 3,000 miles of travel to complete our games this season, and that takes into account that the SW Premier only has 13 teams. RFU slashing funding next season was already a headache and securing sponsors is going to be an unenviable task.  Sadly I suspect there will be other clubs following Bees and Peterborough Lions into having to call a halt before the 2020/21 season starts...   
The statement does say that there will be relegation and promotion for the obvious decisions. I assume you're a Bracknell fan, as you say relegation is sometimes good for a club.
Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 13:02
Originally posted by Cannon Cannon wrote:

The statement does say that there will be relegation and promotion for the obvious decisions. I assume you're a Bracknell fan, as you say relegation is sometimes good for a club.
Newbury. Bracknell are bottom but have a game in hand with all the burgering about with weather cancellations etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sidelined Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 13:45
On a positive note, with the league positions being published by Friday. I can see no reason why next season fixtures can't be published by the end of the monthTongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 16:43
Championship promotion and relegation is confirmed, we await confirmation below that.

To me it's the best available option from a series of which none were perfect. If a match is abandoned due to unforseen circumstances it is a fairly well-established regulation that the result stands if more than 60 mins played. By the same token, with all clubs having played approx 80% of their seasons, applying a similar principle seems fair.

Ok, it's not the exact same principle, as some clubs have played more games, but don't think that can be helped. If there's a fairer scheme, I've yet to see it suggested. Good luck to clubs sweating on official confirmation & commiserations to those who are adversely affected, especially in PO match-ups...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 17:11
Originally posted by sidelined sidelined wrote:

On a positive note, with the league positions being published by Friday. I can see no reason why next season fixtures can't be published by the end of the monthTongue

Be great if they could but there are inevitably going to be appeals and lawsuits which will probably mean we get nothing until July. 

Plus the geography will also play into it I bet. For instance, N3LSE will again have the problem where someone will need to be level transferred because (I assume) both Guernsey and Rochford are going up but only S&E are coming down according to N2S, which means a Midlands club are going to be fighting to not get transferred. (In essance, more appeals to delay it)


Edited by Robb - 02 Apr 2020 at 17:14
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