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The RFU's continuing incompetence

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Big Eddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 15:36
Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by touchlineexpert touchlineexpert wrote:

Eddie,

What is it exactly you think the RFU should be doing to support grassroots clubs in your neck of the woods?


1) Not cutting back on travel expenses, in fact, paying a far greater percentage than they are now, to EVERY club who is in a league at whatever level
2) Not asking clubs to pay for match officials
3) Spending money on training match officials
4) Building the 100 x 4G pitches THEY PROMISED after RWC 2015
5) Reducing the cost of Test match tickets
6) Increasing the test match ticket allowance to clubs
7) Getting a website that works and doesn't need a degree in IT to use when you're a volunteer
8) Not playing all England games at Twickenham, make the game accessible to everyone, wherever they are in the country
9) Organising a proper 2nd team league, instead of leaving it up to the clubs
10) Re employ all those RDO's that they sacked, so as they can get back out in the field, spread the game and get more participation, instead again of leaving it to the clubs ...

That is off the top of my head without even thinking deeply about it, Big Eddie though might have totally different views ....   

Clive I am with you on all of those and I will add a few more:

11) Do not overburden hard working unpaid club volunteers with excessive bureacracy
12) Do not stress the h**l out of hard working unpaid club volunteers by being jobsworth's and punishing their club for minor administrative mistakes
13) Do not patronise the clubs who produce nearly all the players of tomorrow by awarding them just a  plaque when they produce an England International player give them some tangible benefit
14) Recognise who actually you owe a duty of care and responsibility to (its isn't just the 12 Premiership clubs)
15) Uphold your own publicly stated values
16) Be transparent in all your dealings
17) Slim down your organisation
18) Get your culture back to where it should be
19) Cut out the Bullsh*t
20) Stop lecturing to rugby clubs about living within their means etc when you are not able to do this yourselves and neither are most of the Premiership clubs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 15:46
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by touchlineexpert touchlineexpert wrote:

Eddie,

What is it exactly you think the RFU should be doing to support grassroots clubs in your neck of the woods?


1) Not cutting back on travel expenses, in fact, paying a far greater percentage than they are now, to EVERY club who is in a league at whatever level
2) Not asking clubs to pay for match officials
3) Spending money on training match officials
4) Building the 100 x 4G pitches THEY PROMISED after RWC 2015
5) Reducing the cost of Test match tickets
6) Increasing the test match ticket allowance to clubs
7) Getting a website that works and doesn't need a degree in IT to use when you're a volunteer
8) Not playing all England games at Twickenham, make the game accessible to everyone, wherever they are in the country
9) Organising a proper 2nd team league, instead of leaving it up to the clubs
10) Re employ all those RDO's that they sacked, so as they can get back out in the field, spread the game and get more participation, instead again of leaving it to the clubs ...

That is off the top of my head without even thinking deeply about it, Big Eddie though might have totally different views ....   

Clive I am with you on all of those and I will add a few more:

11) Do not overburden hard working unpaid club volunteers with excessive bureacracy
12) Do not stress the h**l out of hard working unpaid club volunteers by being jobsworth's and punishing their club for minor administrative mistakes
13) Do not patronise the clubs who produce nearly all the players of tomorrow by awarding them just a  plaque when they produce an England International player give them some tangible benefit
14) Recognise who actually you owe a duty of care and responsibility to (its isn't just the 12 Premiership clubs)
15) Uphold your own publicly stated values
16) Be transparent in all your dealings
17) Slim down your organisation
18) Get your culture back to where it should be
19) Cut out the Bullsh*t
20) Stop lecturing to rugby clubs about living within their means etc when you are not able to do this yourselves and neither are most of the Premiership clubs

Yes but other than that Clive and Eddie they are doing a good job LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clive Norling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 15:55
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by touchlineexpert touchlineexpert wrote:

Eddie,

What is it exactly you think the RFU should be doing to support grassroots clubs in your neck of the woods?


1) Not cutting back on travel expenses, in fact, paying a far greater percentage than they are now, to EVERY club who is in a league at whatever level
2) Not asking clubs to pay for match officials
3) Spending money on training match officials
4) Building the 100 x 4G pitches THEY PROMISED after RWC 2015
5) Reducing the cost of Test match tickets
6) Increasing the test match ticket allowance to clubs
7) Getting a website that works and doesn't need a degree in IT to use when you're a volunteer
8) Not playing all England games at Twickenham, make the game accessible to everyone, wherever they are in the country
9) Organising a proper 2nd team league, instead of leaving it up to the clubs
10) Re employ all those RDO's that they sacked, so as they can get back out in the field, spread the game and get more participation, instead again of leaving it to the clubs ...

That is off the top of my head without even thinking deeply about it, Big Eddie though might have totally different views ....   


Clive I am with you on all of those and I will add a few more:

11) Do not overburden hard working unpaid club volunteers with excessive bureacracy
12) Do not stress the h**l out of hard working unpaid club volunteers by being jobsworth's and punishing their club for minor administrative mistakes
13) Do not patronise the clubs who produce nearly all the players of tomorrow by awarding them just a  plaque when they produce an England International player give them some tangible benefit
14) Recognise who actually you owe a duty of care and responsibility to (its isn't just the 12 Premiership clubs)
15) Uphold your own publicly stated values
16) Be transparent in all your dealings
17) Slim down your organisation
18) Get your culture back to where it should be
19) Cut out the Bullsh*t
20) Stop lecturing to rugby clubs about living within their means etc when you are not able to do this yourselves and neither are most of the Premiership clubs


Yes but other than that Clive and Eddie they are doing a good job LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wigwam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 16:05
Crikey !!! 
If it’s as bad as all that I don’t think I’ll bother going to another game  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 16:09
Clearly Touchline Expert struggles to understand why I am just a touch more than vexed by the RFU, and believes it is somehow related to something at Caldy or something the RFU is neglecting to do in the North West. It is none of those things. It is all about what I perceive as an arrogant and patronising organisation that lost touch with its constituents a long time ago. 

Outside of the current financial mismanagement and political chicanery I will provide three instances where any respect I had for the RFU disappeared.

1. Many years ago my son was playing for Cheshire at Twickenham against Middlesex. The two counties knocked lumps out of each other and after a high quality game Cheshire finally won through. The Twickenham announcer described the scene as the Cheshire players climbed the steps to receive the trophy and with unbelievable patronising arrogance explained to the crowd and the players that these were the very steps that England International players and Premiership players climbed to receive their trophies. Wow! Imagine how excited that made 40 players (some of whom had previously played International rugby and one of them Chris Sheasby with distinction for England). The fool at Twickenham clearly thought that the County players were playing a different game and weren't real rugby players at all............

After such insulting commentary I went exploring Twickenham with a friend (who was a Middlesex supporter) to make our displeasure known to someone. As we wandered through Twickenham's inner sanctums we came across a large and luxurious room overlooking the pitch. In there were many representatives from the Constituent Bodies being waited upon as they sat in their leather wing back chairs drinking at the RFU's pleasure whilst they took in the game. A lot became clear to me that day.

2. Attending a pre match lunch at Hudderfsield I sat next to a former RFU President. He was hospitable and entertaining and he disclosed to me that he was at Huddersfield to give them a wooden plaque for producing England player Luther Burrell. I was incredulous, was there no financial acknowledgement to help that fine club develop further. Nope just a wooden plaque............he was embarrassed and clearly very unhappy with what was going on at the RFU. He pretty much agreed with everythings I said.

3. The nail in the coffin. The hugely well remunerated Ian Ritchie (circa £750k a year for being CEO of a monopoly business!) strikes a shocking financial deal with Premiership Rugby which pretty much bankrupts the RFU and then he leaves to become.............the Chairman of Premiership Rugby!

I hope that is enough of an explanation for you Touchline  Expert


Edited by Big Eddie - 06 Mar 2020 at 16:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote French Connection Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 17:27
It's almost like a government minister being involved in awarding huge contracts to a company - let's say in the area of defence - and then upon stepping down from parliament taking up a ridiculously well paid 'directorship' at exactly the same defence contractor.  Now that's never happened before has it.  As I've said previously with the example that's currently being set from the top it's no wonder that things are as they are at Twickers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clive Norling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 17:52
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Clearly Touchline Expert struggles to understand why I am just a touch more than vexed by the RFU, and believes it is somehow related to something at Caldy or something the RFU is neglecting to do in the North West. It is none of those things. It is all about what I perceive as an arrogant and patronising organisation that lost touch with its constituents a long time ago. 

Outside of the current financial mismanagement and political chicanery I will provide three instances where any respect I had for the RFU disappeared.

1. Many years ago my son was playing for Cheshire at Twickenham against Middlesex. The two counties knocked lumps out of each other and after a high quality game Cheshire finally won through. The Twickenham announcer described the scene as the Cheshire players climbed the steps to receive the trophy and with unbelievable patronising arrogance explained to the crowd and the players that these were the very steps that England International players and Premiership players climbed to receive their trophies. Wow! Imagine how excited that made 40 players (some of whom had previously played International rugby and one of them Chris Sheasby with distinction for England). The fool at Twickenham clearly thought that the County players were playing a different game and weren't real rugby players at all............

After such insulting commentary I went exploring Twickenham with a friend (who was a Middlesex supporter) to make our displeasure known to someone. As we wandered through Twickenham's inner sanctums we came across a large and luxurious room overlooking the pitch. In there were many representatives from the Constituent Bodies being waited upon as they sat in their leather wing back chairs drinking at the RFU's pleasure whilst they took in the game. A lot became clear to me that day.

2. Attending a pre match lunch at Hudderfsield I sat next to a former RFU President. He was hospitable and entertaining and he disclosed to me that he was at Huddersfield to give them a wooden plaque for producing England player Luther Burrell. I was incredulous, was there no financial acknowledgement to help that fine club develop further. Nope just a wooden plaque............he was embarrassed and clearly very unhappy with what was going on at the RFU. He pretty much agreed with everythings I said.

3. The nail in the coffin. The hugely well remunerated Ian Ritchie (circa £750k a year for being CEO of a monopoly business!) strikes a shocking financial deal with Premiership Rugby which pretty much bankrupts the RFU and then he leaves to become.............the Chairman of Premiership Rugby!

I hope that is enough of an explanation for you Touchline  Expert





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camp Freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 19:29
The last CEO who was the FD before he was promoted resigned quite quickly and then we found out we were in a bit of a pickle.

Not many questions asked were there ................?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clive Norling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 19:35
Originally posted by Camp Freddie Camp Freddie wrote:

The last CEO who was the FD before he was promoted resigned quite quickly and then we found out we were in a bit of a pickle.

Not many questions asked were there ................?




No, because the people who gave him the FD job and then promoted him are still at the company, then serious questions would be asked of them!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeeBumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 11:52
Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

It will be interesting to see what kind of CEO Bill Sweeney is. Is he a radical reformer or a 'Don't Rock the Boat' kind of guy. 

I don't know him but I understand that he is coming to Caldy shortly so I may have the opportunity to find out.....................that is if the club let me in the clubhouse that weekend!


I bet he is a "yes" man ....

He doesn't look - either literally or figuratively - like a "yes" man to me, but he is still an appointee and you have to wonder why he was taken on if he was likely to challenge whoever appointed him.


I'll be interested to hear what he has to say both at Caldy and more generally and, most importantly, get some idea of how he listens and what he understands of the 10 or so playing levels in the hierarchy which have become collectively identified completely wrongly as the "grass roots" 😢

Personally, I'd love to get him and his colleagues to accept that the present organisational tree is the wrong way up and it is the RFU and constituent bodies themselves which should be providing the support associated with a tree's roots with the present "lower levels" being recognised and valued for what they really are - the branches and twigs at which all new growth starts 😎


Edited by BeeBumble - 07 Mar 2020 at 12:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Hooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 14:40
Absolute power Lovelys absolutley
another one against the head
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Hooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 14:42
should read   "Lovelys" not sure what happened there, bit like the RFU
another one against the head
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Hooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 14:44
weird will not let me type what I want, I guess you know the saying
another one against the head
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote touchlineexpert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2020 at 18:23
youve got yourself annoyed by a stadium announcer... you can do better than that!And then a group having a meal with some wine..grow up!

What would be best to give a club that produce an england player? From my own club the exposure of our first international has been mad, during the rwc we averaged 8 new players at training each week!!

Youre third point i will give you, thats a shocker and questions need to be answered.


congrats to caldy on their promotion, hope they get the support you think they are merited next year..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2020 at 21:58
Originally posted by touchlineexpert touchlineexpert wrote:

youve got yourself annoyed by a stadium announcer... you can do better than that!And then a group having a meal with some wine..grow up!

The incident was sympotmatic of how the RFU and its staff see the game below the Professional level. It didn't spark outrageous indignation in me but it did suggest that the RFU did not take rugby below level 1&2 with any seriousness.

What would be best to give a club that produce an england player? From my own club the exposure of our first international has been mad, during the rwc we averaged 8 new players at training each week!! 

I was shocked by the RFU's patronising attitude and I discussed the matter in a civil and courteous conversation with the ex President of the RFU. He agreed with pretty much everything I said and he was clearly unhappy with the way the RFU was being run.

Youre third point i will give you, thats a shocker and questions need to be answered. 

The article by David Walsh which is on the back page of the sport section in today's Sunday Times points out the very clear and present danger to club rugby in England if the RFU continues in its current direction of travel. With the connivance of the RFU's management there is the very significant possibility that CVC will tuck up the RFU and the rest of the home nations and sell out rugby completely.


congrats to caldy on their promotion, hope they get the support you think they are merited next year..

I do not think Caldy merit any more than any other club outside the Professional level. I just want the RFU to start acting in the interest of all and not in the interests of the few.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote L33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 11:28
A thoughts on the below

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by touchlineexpert touchlineexpert wrote:

Eddie,

What is it exactly you think the RFU should be doing to support grassroots clubs in your neck of the woods?


1) Not cutting back on travel expenses, in fact, paying a far greater percentage than they are now, to EVERY club who is in a league at whatever level - why should the RFU pay any travel expenses ? Name another sport that does ? 
2) Not asking clubs to pay for match officials - agree 
3) Spending money on training match officials - agree 
4) Building the 100 x 3G pitches THEY PROMISED after RWC 2015 - rough cost of 3G pitch £750k x 100 = £75m - could this funding be better spent improving floodlights / pitches across the country, would it have more of an impact ? 
5) Reducing the cost of Test match tickets -supply and demand - Twickenham on a match day could sell out x3 
6) Increasing the test match ticket allowance to clubs - this can be done if club create new team within their club and grow
7) Getting a website that works and doesn't need a degree in IT to use when you're a volunteer
8) Not playing all England games at Twickenham, make the game accessible to everyone, wherever they are in the country - there are positives and negatives to this, if they move the games to St James Park / Old Trafford / Anfield the RFU only receive the gate money, everything else would go to the stadium. Imagine the difference in £££ if they play at another venue rather than Twickenham (hospitality/ beer etc )
9) Organising a proper 2nd team league, instead of leaving it up to the clubs - Yes i agree - move with the times and support the growth of 2xv rugby. There are questions in the recent survey that's gone out to players and coaches regarding this. 
10) Re employ all those RDO's that they sacked, so as they can get back out in the field, spread the game and get more participation, instead again of leaving it to the clubs ...

That is off the top of my head without even thinking deeply about it, Big Eddie though might have totally different views ....   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 11:35
L33 while I tend to agree with you on most points.
On travel, while no other sport does this, Rugby is in a unique situation.

We are a minority sport, so there is significant travel (especially in the women's and girls' game).

But we have the income stream from the internationals that EnglandHockey or BBA would give an arm and a leg for.

So we could significantly subsidise travel for all organised matches.
Which would reduce one of the complaints we have at mid levels.

That does nto mean we should not look at the league structure to reduce travel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 12:20
L33 makes some relevant points but my issue with the RFU is about what I see as a huge misalignment between the RFU's direction of travel since professionalism and its constitutional responsibilites.

Company's are governement by their Memorandum and Articles of Association. In law their primary responsibilities are to their shareholders, employees and creditors. Depending on circumstances how management discharge their responsibilities betwwen theses three groups can change. When a Company is in financial difficulties the interests of Creditors and Employees should have primacy over the interests of Shareholders.

If at such times Company Directors put the interests of Shareholders above the interests of Creditors they risk becoming personally liable if the Company tips into insolvency. 

When shareholders all hold the same class of shares their interests are (or should be the same). The Company's management cannot favour one Ordinary shareholder over another. They all have to be treated equally. 

I would be interested to know how and why the RFU feel it is appropriate and acceptable to treat the Premiership clubs differently to the rest of the rugby clubs in England. Is there something in the RFU's constitution that requires or allows this to happen?


Edited by Big Eddie - 09 Mar 2020 at 12:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clive Norling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 21:20
Update on what an England player receives if picked in the match day 23 for a Test match ......... £25k and they get that whether they play 80 minutes or 8 seconds ....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 22:00
.....or get yellow carded shortly after coming on!
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