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1987-88 Northern Zone
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Mark W-J View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Aug 2020 at 09:52
No, Area League North/ South was level four.  Renamed Courage League Four North/ South at the start of the 1990-91 season.  Became Courage Five North/ South for the 1994-95 campaign (I think) due to the reduction in the size of leagues above.

Edited by Mark W-J - 29 Aug 2020 at 10:07
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Points: 493 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2020 at 22:51
Originally posted by 'Hopper 'Hopper wrote:

Originally posted by Allan Foster Allan Foster wrote:

In National Division Three (level 3) that year, the clubs were, in no particular order:

Vale of Lune, Sheffield, Plymouth, Met Police, Fylde, Maidstone, Birmingham, Exeter, West Hartlepool, Wakefield, Morley & Nuneaton.
Level 4 that year was made up of:
Roundhay, Rugby, Solihull, Stourbridge, Preston Grasshoppers, Birkenhead Park,  Broughton Park, Derby, Durham City, Lichfield and Northern. 
I think you will find that was level 5... the first split North / South below 4 national leagues (see my post early in the thread). It had a catchy title of "Area League North" I believe!
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Originally posted by Allan Foster Allan Foster wrote:

In National Division Three (level 3) that year, the clubs were, in no particular order:

Vale of Lune, Sheffield, Plymouth, Met Police, Fylde, Maidstone, Birmingham, Exeter, West Hartlepool, Wakefield, Morley & Nuneaton.
Level 4 that year was made up of:
Roundhay, Rugby, Solihull, Stourbridge, Preston Grasshoppers, Birkenhead Park,  Broughton Park, Derby, Durham City, Lichfield and Northern. 
What if the Hokey Kokey really IS what it's all about?
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Points: 3491 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allan Foster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2020 at 11:30
In National Division Three (level 3) that year, the clubs were, in no particular order:

Vale of Lune, Sheffield, Plymouth, Met Police, Fylde, Maidstone, Birmingham, Exeter, West Hartlepool, Wakefield, Morley & Nuneaton.
An academic is someone who sees something working perfectly in practice & wonders if it will work in theory
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All London & SE leagues now updated on wiki.

Only Midlands Division left to do. Does anyone have this on hand?
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Points: 38 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novocastrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2020 at 18:11
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Originally posted by Novocastrian Novocastrian wrote:

Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

Via a combination of the RFU website, some Rothmans yearbooks, Courage Clubs Directories and a healthy dollop of OCD, I've compiled a spreadsheet with all of the league tables for London & South East since 1987.  I haven't got the patience to format it for Wikipedia, but if it would be of any use to you then drop me a line.

That would be tremendous. DM sent.

I must admit, it is incredibly painful to update it onto wikipedia. But once it's there, it's there which is useful for everyone. Surprising that the RFU have never gotten round to updating the tables themselves on their own website.

You're not really surprised are you?

Not particularly. It’s still a shame it’s left up to others (History bores and volunteers!Wink )to get the work done!

Anyway, the entire Northern Division is nearly finished. There’s been some very strange league set ups in the North West over the years, I must say (North West West 1 and names like that). At least it’s mostly done now though. Take a look if you’re from the North and are interested in seeing the rise and fall of certain clubs.

We’ll then be moving onto doing the entire London SE set up courtesy of Mark W-J’s great work. And finally Midlands. (SW has already been done).
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Top man Richard, thanks for your help.
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Originally posted by Camp Freddie Camp Freddie wrote:

Quuite a few teams in the higher leagues got their fingers burned.

With regards to the RFU & Wiki, I've been trying to find the England team that played the New Zealand Native in 1888/1889, any help greatfully received, as next step the TW2 museum but probably furloughed.

I've got that. Email me and I'll send you the details - tackler7@yahoo.com
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Quuite a few teams in the higher leagues got their fingers burned.

With regards to the RFU & Wiki, I've been trying to find the England team that played the New Zealand Native in 1888/1889, any help greatfully received, as next step the TW2 museum but probably furloughed.
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Originally posted by Novocastrian Novocastrian wrote:

Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

Via a combination of the RFU website, some Rothmans yearbooks, Courage Clubs Directories and a healthy dollop of OCD, I've compiled a spreadsheet with all of the league tables for London & South East since 1987.  I haven't got the patience to format it for Wikipedia, but if it would be of any use to you then drop me a line.

That would be tremendous. DM sent.

I must admit, it is incredibly painful to update it onto wikipedia. But once it's there, it's there which is useful for everyone. Surprising that the RFU have never gotten round to updating the tables themselves on their own website.

You're not really surprised are you?
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Points: 38 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novocastrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2020 at 13:17
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

Via a combination of the RFU website, some Rothmans yearbooks, Courage Clubs Directories and a healthy dollop of OCD, I've compiled a spreadsheet with all of the league tables for London & South East since 1987.  I haven't got the patience to format it for Wikipedia, but if it would be of any use to you then drop me a line.

That would be tremendous. DM sent.

I must admit, it is incredibly painful to update it onto wikipedia. But once it's there, it's there which is useful for everyone. Surprising that the RFU have never gotten round to updating the tables themselves on their own website.
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Mark W-J View Drop Down
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Points: 3653 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2020 at 12:51
Via a combination of the RFU website, some Rothmans yearbooks, Courage Clubs Directories and a healthy dollop of OCD, I've compiled a spreadsheet with all of the league tables for London & South East since 1987.  I haven't got the patience to format it for Wikipedia, but if it would be of any use to you then drop me a line.
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Points: 38 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novocastrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2020 at 11:15
With a well known wiki editor (Jjgsmith) we’ve worked together to update the entire Northern Division Wikipedia pages, to include all league winners, relegations and restructurings. This also includes now defunct leagues such as North West 3, North East 1 etc etc. 

We’re still working through some of the NW leagues as it was rather complicated back in the day!

We’re hoping to then complete Midlands and Southern Divisions at some point in the future as well.

Take a look, work your way through the various levels and you might find your club winning a league that you may have had no idea about! 

Best,

Novo
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Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

Originally posted by Monkey Boy Monkey Boy wrote:

Originally posted by Maroon Maroon wrote:

Reference Hull Ionians, I believe this information is correct, but willing to be corrected.


Hull Ionians were at level 5 from 1989-2002 (From 1987 if you count Hull and ER)

They were at level 4 for a season (2002-3) before being relegated to level 5 in 2003 for 2 seasons (2003-5)

Since 2005 they have have been moving between levels 4 and 3.


That was my idea so hardly up there with the clubs who’ve been around at L4 for years

Happy to stand corrected. All a question of Leagues and equivalent levels. My mistake. 

The leagues were introduced 32 years ago. I don't think Hull &ER/Hull Ionians have a bad record during that time, be it at levels 5, 4 or 3.

You may disagree but then again, you live up a tree.



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Originally posted by Monkey Boy Monkey Boy wrote:

Originally posted by Maroon Maroon wrote:

Reference Hull Ionians, I believe this information is correct, but willing to be corrected.


Hull Ionians were at level 5 from 1989-2002 (From 1987 if you count Hull and ER)

They were at level 4 for a season (2002-3) before being relegated to level 5 in 2003 for 2 seasons (2003-5)

Since 2005 they have have been moving between levels 4 and 3.


That was my idea so hardly up there with the clubs who’ve been around at L4 for years

Happy to stand corrected. All a question of Leagues and equivalent levels. My mistake. 

The leagues were introduced 32 years ago. I don't think Hull &ER/Hull Ionians have a bad record during that time, be it at levels 5, 4 or 3.

You may disagree but then again, you live up a tree.
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Originally posted by Maroon Maroon wrote:

Reference Hull Ionians, I believe this information is correct, but willing to be corrected.


Hull Ionians were at level 5 from 1989-2002 (From 1987 if you count Hull and ER)

They were at level 4 for a season (2002-3) before being relegated to level 5 in 2003 for 2 seasons (2003-5)

Since 2005 they have have been moving between levels 4 and 3.


That was my idea so hardly up there with the clubs who’ve been around at L4 for years
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Reference Hull Ionians, I believe this information is correct, but willing to be corrected.


Hull Ionians were at level 5 from 1989-2002 (From 1987 if you count Hull and ER)

They were at level 4 for a season (2002-3) before being relegated to level 5 in 2003 for 2 seasons (2003-5)

Since 2005 they have have been moving between levels 4 and 3.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_League_2_North
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Points: 1809 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2020 at 19:21
Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

Originally posted by Monkey Boy Monkey Boy wrote:

Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

The old 'North One' is the equivalent of National 2 North today (Level 4.).
I think that Hull & East Riding/Hull Ionians or Tynedale may hold the record for the number of years spent at Level 4. or above, without  ever dropping to Level 5.

No doubt someone might prove me wrong?

I’s certainly had time at L5 didn't they since 2000?

No. Don't think so.

Relegated in 2003
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Wikipedia lists winning the North v Midlands play off in 2002 and 2005 among Ionians honours.
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