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Proposed " Class Action"
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Bigmal View Drop Down
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Points: 1480 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 20:50
As the instigator of this thread I note that RL players have been drawn into the matter so it would appear that this is a matter for BOTH codes as well as other sports.

Size, strength and subs are key issues but the leading with the head is arguably the real problem.

Over the years the move towards seeking contact as opposed to space has made the game more relentless in physical terms so we probably have to get back to players staying on their feet although there is separate criticism on these pages of Exeter style rolling mails.

The answer for the lower leagues has to be less subs and a more open game. The professional game is another matter so are we looking at protective headgear becoming mandatory and leading with the head to be penalised? 

Difficult questions and complicated solutions face those in charge. 
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Raider999 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

Raider sadly I have seen concussions happen in unopposed lineout practice and touch rugby. My point was about the volume of training compared to the volume of matches played


I didn't say that concussions couldn't/didn't happen in training - I just suggested that as a lot of the training session will not be full contact that might explain why only 20% of concussions were attributed to training despite the time spent training being considerably longer than that playing actual matches.
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marigold View Drop Down
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Points: 430 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 16:15
Raider sadly I have seen concussions happen in unopposed lineout practice and touch rugby. My point was about the volume of training compared to the volume of matches played
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Richard Lowther View Drop Down
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Points: 6529 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 16:09
The legal beagles suggest that the class action won't be succesful but that a compromise will be reached - providing the players with some financial support.

Hopefully it will result in changes and reverses to some of the current practices and laws which are seen to be the root of the issue. 

As Workerbee suggests one of the easiest fixes is the reduction in the number of replacements and an encouragement for players to train for longevity and not bulk up for strength.  The issue I don't have a simple solution for is those players who play on after being injured, either because the injury isn't picked up or they don't feel they can come off because all the subs have been used. 

As I said on here and other forums my Dad had an expression " Be more like dodgems not bumper cars" meaning look for the space not the man.  Unfortunately too many players these days seem to take delight in looking for the man and not the space and we have players coached out of using thier initiative. 


Edited by Richard Lowther - 22 Dec 2020 at 17:41
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workerbee View Drop Down
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Points: 886 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 15:57
Rugby has changed, No longer do players try to avoid the tackle but take it head on as a battle of strength and physicality, no more Phil Bennetts more Joma Lomu's . This has been caused by the professional game expecting players to be gym bunnies rather than athletes. Too much emphasis  on the bony building and less on Aerobic capacity. On way to reduce this would be to have less subs which would mean players having to last 80 minutes not 50. More and more players are going into the tackler with their heads down making it impossible to tackle unless they target the ankles ,many concussion injuries are on the tackler not the tackled person. there must be a way of stopping players leading with their head. 
Banning schools tackling will be the end of the game as boys will simply play football. No  one will want to leave school never tackling and go into senior rugby which will be a different and more physical game.

No easy answers but if these actions go ahead I can see it being the death of rugby.
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Points: 4434 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 15:50
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

I am amazed that considering clubs train possibly three times as long as they play that less than 20% of reported concussions happen in training. Agree sport much better at reporting it in matches , would like to believe that is the same for training but am sadly sceptical.


Probably because a lot of training isn't full contact.
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marigold View Drop Down
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Points: 430 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 15:48
I am amazed that considering clubs train possibly three times as long as they play that less than 20% of reported concussions happen in training. Agree sport much better at reporting it in matches , would like to believe that is the same for training but am sadly sceptical.
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Points: 1855 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 15:28
Originally posted by Steve@Mose Steve@Mose wrote:

Some interesting stats.


Quote In 2018-19, 20.4% of players sustained at least one match concussion.

It is an increase from 16% in the 2017-18 season.

The report analysed 407 games and 763 players from 12 Premiership clubs.

For the eighth consecutive season, concussion was the most commonly reported match injury.

In total, there were 166 match concussions and 38 training concussions.

Part of that is going to be because the sport has got better at identifying and reporting it. 

But part of it is also going to be bigger players colliding with each other and more physicality. 

It's an argument for going back to two nights a week training, all players to have other jobs, and banning gyms...
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Points: 2761 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 14:03
Some interesting stats.


Quote In 2018-19, 20.4% of players sustained at least one match concussion.

It is an increase from 16% in the 2017-18 season.

The report analysed 407 games and 763 players from 12 Premiership clubs.

For the eighth consecutive season, concussion was the most commonly reported match injury.

In total, there were 166 match concussions and 38 training concussions.
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Points: 3257 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2020 at 19:52
Fortunately, I only suffered concussion once when playing in the 80's,but ended up in hospital. To this day I don't remember the game or the day. Although I was discharged the same day, I was not told anything about not playing the following week, however I had a two week holiday booked so I did not play again for four weeks, which may have been a blessing. .
Reading some of quotes by these players it is quite frightening to think they played so many games after concussion or being knocked out. 


Edited by kingsheathlad - 19 Dec 2020 at 08:52
Cauliflower ear.
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Steve@Mose View Drop Down
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Points: 2761 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2020 at 15:16
Steve Thompson in group of ex-rugby union internationals to sue for brain damage


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Bigmal View Drop Down
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Points: 1480 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2020 at 15:04
I have just read the story about the possibility ( probability?) of a group of ex players who intend seeking damages for medical problems allegedly caused by repeated blows to the head whilst playing.

For the avoidance of doubt I do not think it my place to comment on the specific individuals involved but clearly such action could have serious implications for those playing, refereeing, coaching and administering the game at all levels. With problems brought on by C19 will we now see further changes in the laws?

With the size and physicality of players especially at the top level it seems to me that the only potential solutions are likely to involve a reduction in numbers on the park as well as in the set pieces?

During lockdown I have watched a couple of games of League and noticed that  high tackles are not penalised quite as rigorously as in Union. I wonder whether ex League players are suffering in the same way as Union players?
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