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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11148 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2022 at 13:38
I believe the new cups will be open to all teams in the ECC, but they are tiered. So, as 2nd XVs are only able to enter up to level 7, they will only be able to enter the level 7 cups - not the national  level 5 or the top level 6 cup.

However, I think there are two cups for level 6 and the lower one might need some level 7 sides to fill all the slots - if not all teams enter. So some of those could be 2nd XV if they top their leagues.




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PiffPaff View Drop Down
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Points: 1126 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2022 at 16:13
Originally posted by Hare today! Hare today! wrote:

[/QUOTE] I
I suppose that is one way of stopping clubs entering 2nd teams in the league structures - many are going to be too strong at level 7/8 let alone wasting their time starting at level 11/12.[/QUOTE]

Many will be, which is why it's laughable that they have now introduced a ceiling at L7 so any lower XV entering the ECC will not be able to progress higher than L7 Confused
[/QUOTE]

That ceiling was always in the original proposal from 2 years ago so its hardly been "introduced", bit of an issue for Chester 2s I would guess you can't go up and you can't go down (nothing below L7 in the North West) kind of a limbo situation.
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Hare today! View Drop Down
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Points: 28 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hare today! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2022 at 16:53
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Originally posted by Hare today! Hare today! wrote:

I suppose that is one way of stopping clubs entering 2nd teams in the league structures - many are going to be too strong at level 7/8 let alone wasting their time starting at level 11/12.

Many will be, which is why it's laughable that they have now introduced a ceiling at L7 so any lower XV entering the ECC will not be able to progress higher than L7 Confused
[/QUOTE]

That ceiling was always in the original proposal from 2 years ago so its hardly been "introduced", bit of an issue for Chester 2s I would guess you can't go up and you can't go down (nothing below L7 in the North West) kind of a limbo situation.
[/QUOTE]

It hasn't been in the guidelines for over a year, to the extent the CB were absolutely flabbergasted last week after the webinar when it was stated.  Correct re limbo.
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Halliford View Drop Down
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Points: 4148 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2022 at 17:25
Obviously CBs differ, but in mine it was always clear that there was a ceiling at Level 7. That is why Esher and Richmond were considering entering their 3rd XVs, not their 2nd XV, in the Leagues. That has been blocked by the junior Clubs in Surrey who voted 89% against so we will continue with the Raging Bull League and Surrey Reserve League until something better is identified.
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PiffPaff View Drop Down
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Points: 1126 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2022 at 18:02
Then someone in Cheshire CB doesn't know their Ar5e from their elbow. Extract from a article on englandrugby.com posted January, 2022 but refers back to original outline from 2019. So why anyone would have their "Gast" Flabbered is amazing. 


As confirmed earlier this year, from September 2022 Lower XV teams will be able to enter RFU leagues [The English Clubs Championship] up to level 7 in the men’s game, subject to fulfilling specified criteria.

Clubs are encouraged to read the criteria carefully and to consider the playing requirements and implications before moving to the next stage of expressing an interest in participating.



Edited by PiffPaff - 31 Mar 2022 at 18:10
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Camp Freddie View Drop Down
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Points: 153 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camp Freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2022 at 18:28
How could they be flabergasted, we (Lancashire) been talking with them for months. Strange that out of the 6 Northern Counties only Cheshire voted to allow lower XVs in the RFU Structure, the other 5 voted against.

As PiffPaff says, this information has been out in the rugby domain for quite a while.

Can't image now that Chester 2nd XV will enjoy being in a league of what will currently be 7 sides next season, can't get promoted from it and the league structure will be locked for 3 seasons until the next review.
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11148 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2022 at 20:23
Silly question, have any of the Lancashire league clubs returned to the ECC fold?
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Points: 1717 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2022 at 21:08
There is no obligation for 2nd XV's to join the ECC just because their own CB hasn't voted to overturn the RFU default position (to allow 2nd XV's in) - it is only clubs where their CB has voted against that they won't be allowed so in Chesters case it remains a choice of the individual club
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PiffPaff View Drop Down
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Points: 1126 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2022 at 07:51
CQ, no idea. I believe that the majority of Lancashire Clubs rejected going back if Lower XVs were allowed in. Which I guess would/could have meant they would have all gone back if it wasn't a thing.

I assume the RFU/FCS will say they are following their own regulations, but by doing so they've been "hoisted by their own petard" and instead of unifying things they've made it slightly worse.............imagine the RFU implementing something that makes things worse than it was before.

I can see the catchy John Inverdale video on englandrugby.com now.

Pan into John Inverdale walking across Esher 1st XV pitch or TW2

"We've spent thousands of pounds on meetings, research, survey's, webinars and not listen to any of the feedback"

"We will press on with a restructure no one wanted that makes things slightly worse and continue to pull funding from the Championship down."

"We create strife between CBs because we will allow those very CBs to take different stances on decisive matters like Lower XV entry and then expect them to play nice."

"FCS 2022/23 its a case of mind over matter........"

"We don't mind and you (the game) don't matter"



Edited by PiffPaff - 01 Apr 2022 at 07:53
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PiffPaff View Drop Down
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Points: 1126 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2022 at 16:10
CQ, I have an update for for you....

CQ asked "Silly question, have any of the Lancashire league clubs returned to the ECC fold?"

Answer: Not sure, as FOUR of the remaining level 7 Clubs have apparently gone the other way to the ADM Leagues if Official Social Media posts are correct.

Chester 2nd XV could be playing themselves!
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Deva Delinquent View Drop Down
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Points: 1857 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deva Delinquent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2022 at 17:11
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

CQ, I have an update for for you....

CQ asked "Silly question, have any of the Lancashire league clubs returned to the ECC fold?"

Answer: Not sure, as FOUR of the remaining level 7 Clubs have apparently gone the other way to the ADM Leagues if Official Social Media posts are correct.

Chester 2nd XV could be playing themselves!

And we'd still finish runner-up to Caldy LOL


Edited by Deva Delinquent - 14 Apr 2022 at 17:11
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BruceElliott View Drop Down
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Points: 313 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BruceElliott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2022 at 18:11
Has anyone figured it out yet?

What do we know for sure? And for what isn't known, what is most likely?
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11148 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2022 at 18:21
This is my best guess as to the level 5 leagues.I am fairly certain I have got the dots in the correct places, but I am not sure exactly which teams will go in which leagues, so the final version may well be different.


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BruceElliott View Drop Down
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Points: 313 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BruceElliott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2022 at 11:30
Thanks for posting that.

Now I just need to work out my geography to figure out what's what!!! Big smile

I appreciate the effort that's gone into that. I do wonder if we'll see more of an East/West division rather than North/South on the greens and blues.

I guess we'll find out next month!
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Robb View Drop Down
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Points: 1483 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2022 at 16:57
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

This is my best guess as to the level 5 leagues.I am fairly certain I have got the dots in the correct places, but I am not sure exactly which teams will go in which leagues, so the final version may well be different.



That's going to be a tough call for whoever is drawing the league boundaries in the LSE region. It will probably be a matter of miles either way for clubs on the borderline to see whether they go to Royal Tunbridge Wells or Royal Wotton Bassett.

And of course, there will be the inevitable appeals...... 
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Points: 3647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2022 at 19:35
From what I understand, the southern split will be east/ west rather than north/ south as implied by this graphic.
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11148 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2022 at 09:41
I did say it was my best guess and NOT official.

I assumed a North South split because of the Thames, North-South travel gets forced through a few pinch points which lead to travel delays.  But I have not fully checked travel times, nor would I be surprised by any decision by the RFU/NCA.

The decision as to which side North of Manchester goes North is going to be a tough call as they have extra travel.

And which of the goes into Manchester and which to the Midlands is also a big decision.

There will be just as many hard calls at level 6 and level 7.
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PiffPaff View Drop Down
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Points: 1126 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2022 at 10:30
CQ got told yesterday that there's a big announcement due on the Leagues in the North West this week.
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carlos fandango View Drop Down
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Points: 888 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carlos fandango Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2022 at 11:11
Looking at the map, doesn't north/south (for us in the London region) make more sense? Getting from the south coast up to deepest darkest Herts/Cambs/Essex can be a nightmare journey. 

By the way, who is that halfway to Bristol?
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SmilingD View Drop Down
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Points: 32 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmilingD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2022 at 11:17
Originally posted by carlos fandango carlos fandango wrote:

Looking at the map, doesn't north/south (for us in the London region) make more sense? Getting from the south coast up to deepest darkest Herts/Cambs/Essex can be a nightmare journey. 

By the way, who is that halfway to Bristol?

I think that's probably Royal Wootton Bassett, Carlos. Eastern Counties off to play Dorset and Wiltshire there next weekend in the County Championship - I can report back here on travel times!

The problem with dealing with mileages in London division is that the gravitational pull of the smoke distorts the space-time continuum. I agree a North/South makes more sense than East/West - not least because that fits better with the lower league set-up for promotion/relegation.


Edited by SmilingD - 01 May 2022 at 11:17
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