National League Rugby Discussion Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > Clubhouse chat
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 2022-23 league teams
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

2022-23 league teams
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 11128 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 18:28
PifPaff, myself and others have been venting on this board about the problems with the reorg.

I also sent the working group my thoughts about what was wrong with the plan.

I know clubs are run by volunteers and there are 101 other things to do, but every club should have read the reports and sent comments in.

Chester going South is not the worst case.
it is likely that one of the Sheffield clubs will also need to go South as well - though I think that needs Leeds to come down.

What happens if three Northern clubs  are relegated from National 1 next season, That could see both Sheffield clubs and Rotherham playing in the South. 

You cannot set up the rules assuming the best case will happen, you have to be able to cope with
the worst case.


Sweeney Delenda Est
Back to Top
PiffPaff View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Location: Manchester
Status: Offline
Points: 1126 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 19:25
Indeed CQ, its like no one in RFU Comps wants to listen and the FCS "commission" have adopted a "We'll carry on regardless" stance. In other words they will implement a re-org that no majority wanted in the 1st place. This was supposed to be the grand reset to flatten the pyramid. All they've done is re-arrange the deckchairs on the Titanic. If they stick to their original published document these changes will run for 3 years before they even look at tweaking it. Some clubs by that stage could be short of a few quid and a lot of players as the modern day semi-pro/amateur player doesn't want to spend all of his Saturday travelling to far flung places for a game.




Edited by PiffPaff - 23 Mar 2022 at 19:27
Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
Back to Top
Sid James View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Location: East Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1643 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 22:25
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Sid, the time to have raised this was I am afraid May 2021 when it was first mooted that Chester  would be put in the South West. Then we might have had a fighting chance of getting it changed.

So, we should do nothing?
Also, 'venting' on this forum is not going to change anything. 
Clubs petitioning the RFU via the NCA will at least let them know our view/opinion.
All Knwoing All Seeing
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 11128 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 23:13
Well, you have done nothing for a year, why change the habits of a lifetime.

I at least wrote to the RFU with the issues I have raised here, and was ignored.

I suggested to everyone on here to write to make sure the RFU heard our views, did you do that?
Did you even read the report, before last week?

If you had, then at every match, you would have been say, this is our last season in the North, and you might have already gathered support.

I am not on my club committee, so they will not petition the RFU based on my views, and I believe our DoR thinks that cutting to level 3 to 14 teams is not a bad idea.

Which is the problem.

 The National 1 clubs are not badly affected, so they have been acquiescent.
The level 5 and 6 clubs might have less travel in the league. And they see the cup as an adventure, even though it means more travel

The level 4 clubs in the Northern division probably see less travel,  as will those in the South,
Redruth will see a lot less travel, even if they go to Chester.

So it is really only Chester, and possibly a Sheffield club, that gets shafted. Newport may only be swapping a tip to Tynedale for one to Barnstaple - though Redruth is another 100 miles. 

Which goes some way to explain why it is hard to get clubs together to petition on this.

The campaigns that have won are those to keep National 1 as a National league - which I understand came from the clubs against the wishes of the RFU - and the local fights to keep 2nd XVs out of the ECC, which reduces the ability to reduce travel in the lower leagues.

The way to keep Chester in the  North, is to say to Blackburn, I am sorry you do not get promoted this season. And we can not guarantee how many sides will be promoted next season, as if too many Northern sides are relegated from National 1, there might not be room. Are you sure they would back you?

It is divide and conquer.


Edited by Camquin - 23 Mar 2022 at 23:17
Sweeney Delenda Est
Back to Top
Halliford View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 23:59
Camquin, it was a near unanimous view of NCA DoRs that Theur Leagues should be cut to 14 teams from 16. Steve Hill from Richmond carried out the survey.
The 3 Leagues at Level 4 was initially kicked out by the NCA but was carried by the votes of the CBs. If they were anything like my own then ambitious Clubs at Level 6/7 saw expansion as their best chance of promotion - thus it succeeded.
There is an underlying move here, IMHO, to break away from the Divisional structure which is itself flawed, and also to move away from the Level Transfer approach.
Personally, I’m hoping Esher get promoted but will then feel,sorry for Chester. Geography is a pain, for example in 2018 Esher’s Christmas Derby match was away to Plymouth as that year in National 1 we were the closest club to Plymouth! Unless we can detach Devon and Cornwall and reposition them, problems will continue. 
Back to Top
Sid James View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Location: East Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1643 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 08:07
[QUOTE=Camquin]
Well, you have done nothing for a year, why change the habits of a lifetime.

I at least wrote to the RFU with the issues I have raised here, and was ignored.

I suggested to everyone on here to write to make sure the RFU heard our views, did you do that?
Did you even read the report, before last week?

If you had, then at every match, you would have been say, this is our last season in the North, and you might have already gathered support.
[QUOTE]

Lets not make this about what you or I have done personally. 
You have no idea what I have done or what my habits are and I have no desire to know yours.
Your comment "this is our last season in the North" suggests that you think I follow Chester, I do not.

Anyway, my forum posting yesterday was about rallying the Northern Clubs to get behind Chester and all I get is a mouth full of me, me ,me from Cambridge. I can see we will need to do this elsewhere.

We are looking at a Northern Club being sent South which abhorrent.
All Knwoing All Seeing
Back to Top
Mark W-J View Drop Down
Coaching staff
Coaching staff
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 08:26
We've known that a restructure is impending for at least two years, and, as Camquin says, the rumours about Chester initially surfaced 12 months ago.  Why are people getting on their high horse now when they've had a year to try to persuade the powers-that-be to do something?  It's too late to do anything now, either here or elsewhere.
Back to Top
Thatbloke View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 02 Sep 2017
Location: Newport
Status: Offline
Points: 1716 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 09:19
Sid
You seem to forget that Nat2 North comprises of the North AND Midlands regions. The Midlands Region has suffered perennially with Level-transfers south - Hinckley, Leicester Lions, Birmingham/Solihull the most recent but I didn't hear any Northern clubs claiming "outrage"??
The real problem is a log-jam of Northern clubs at Level 4, none of whom seem capable of making the jump to Nat1
Surely if 80% of clubs will have less travelling but 20% have more then surely that is mission accomplished?? (80/20 is just my guesstimate obviously) 
We (Newport) could well clinch promotion to Level 4 on Saturday and guess what - yes we will be heading South (not North as we should by virtue of being a Midlands club) We're only 40 miles better off than Chester but the general feeling is that we are happy to go South West



Edited by Thatbloke - 24 Mar 2022 at 09:27
Back to Top
cheshire exile View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2447 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 10:23
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Sid
You seem to forget that Nat2 North comprises of the North AND Midlands regions. The Midlands Region has suffered perennially with Level-transfers south - Hinckley, Leicester Lions, Birmingham/Solihull the most recent but I didn't hear any Northern clubs claiming "outrage"??
The real problem is a log-jam of Northern clubs at Level 4, none of whom seem capable of making the jump to Nat1
Surely if 80% of clubs will have less travelling but 20% have more then surely that is mission accomplished?? (80/20 is just my guesstimate obviously) 
We (Newport) could well clinch promotion to Level 4 on Saturday and guess what - yes we will be heading South (not North as we should by virtue of being a Midlands club) We're only 40 miles better off than Chester but the general feeling is that we are happy to go South West


Quite right. Newport to the Bristol/ Gloucester area isn’t too bad. And treat your possible trip to Redruth as something to relish; a great club with big crowds. 
Back to Top
Sid James View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Location: East Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1643 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 12:33
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

 
We (Newport) could well clinch promotion to Level 4 on Saturday and guess what - yes we will be heading South (not North as we should by virtue of being a Midlands club) We're only 40 miles better off than Chester but the general feeling is that we are happy to go South West


Yes but, Chester is a Northen Club and they are not happy with heading south, hence our support.


Edited by Sid James - 24 Mar 2022 at 12:33
All Knwoing All Seeing
Back to Top
Thatbloke View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 02 Sep 2017
Location: Newport
Status: Offline
Points: 1716 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 12:48
Very few clubs ARE happy about being Level-transferred so why should Chester be an exception and be spared? You can launch as many appeals as you like but if the RFU mileages say Chester then Chester it will be. Personally I think when the dust settles they will be staying North but at the mo we're all guessing
Back to Top
Rothman2 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner

Rotherham

Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Location: Location
Status: Offline
Points: 10955 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rothman2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 17:06
Some of the people on here are well suited to the RFU. A complete joke.

Full of I’m alright Jacks. Am totally with Sid on this. 
As one door closes…….another one slams in your face.
Back to Top
Rothman2 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner

Rotherham

Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Location: Location
Status: Offline
Points: 10955 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rothman2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 17:18
That Bloke wrote:

“The real problem is a log-jam of Northern clubs at Level 4, none of whom seem capable of making the jump to Nat1”

I would wager Roth, Hull and Sedge would beat any of the teams in Nat 2 South and all hold their own in Nat 1.
All are likely to gain more points than any of the Southern teams. If the RFU did their jobs properly and included Nat 1 in the restructure then there might not be as many Northern Clubs at level 4. They are not even allowing a play off this year yet, last time they promoted a team without having a play off and relegated us. Guess what - the team promoted without a play off is bottom of Nat 1.

It is decided by kangaroo court. 
As one door closes…….another one slams in your face.
Back to Top
Thatbloke View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 02 Sep 2017
Location: Newport
Status: Offline
Points: 1716 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 17:26
Well we'll soon find out because one of those 3 will be making the step up to Nat1. As regards to "those 3 would beat any team in Nat2 South" is pure speculation. The facts state, however, that play-offs have almost always gone in favour of the Southern team hence the "log-jam" I referred to. 
Back to Top
Raider999 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 4430 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 12:44
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Well we'll soon find out because one of those 3 will be making the step up to Nat1. As regards to "those 3 would beat any team in Nat2 South" is pure speculation. The facts state, however, that play-offs have almost always gone in favour of the Southern team hence the "log-jam" I referred to. 


Correct, the log jam is also caused by the number of northern teams coming down from Nat1 over the past few years being higher than those from the South.
RAID ON
Back to Top
Raider999 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 4430 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 12:46
Originally posted by Rothman2 Rothman2 wrote:

That Bloke wrote:

<span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; : rgb251, 251, 253;">“The real problem is a log-jam of Northern clubs at Level 4, none of whom seem capable of making the jump to Nat1”</span>
<span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; : rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; : rgb251, 251, 253;">I would wager Roth, Hull and Sedge would beat any of the teams in Nat 2 South and all hold their own in Nat 1.</span>
<span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; : rgb251, 251, 253;">All are likely to gain more points than any of the Southern teams. If the RFU did their jobs properly and included Nat 1 in the restructure then there might not be as many Northern Clubs at level 4. They are not even allowing a play off this year yet, last time they promoted a team without having a play off and relegated us. Guess what - the team promoted without a play off is bottom of Nat 1.</span>
<span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; : rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; : rgb251, 251, 253;">It is decided by kangaroo court. </span>
<span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; : rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; : rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>


Just because the 3 teams at top of Nat2N will end up with more points than those at the top of Nat2S doesn't mean they are better - could just be the fact that with the exception of a couple of teams Nat2S has more good teams than Nat2N
RAID ON
Back to Top
Sid James View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Location: East Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1643 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 13:41
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

QUOTE] 

Just because the 3 teams at top of Nat2N will end up with more points than those at the top of Nat2S doesn't mean they are better - could just be the fact that with the exception of a couple of teams Nat2S has more good teams than Nat2N

Or,  there could be a lot of mediocre teams in N2S who all struggle to beat each other. Who cares. 

The reason that Clubs in the South are more successful and field more teams is a question of greater available resources, which are attracted south by more opportunities for jobs/careers etc but, let's not get into politics.


Edited by Sid James - 25 Mar 2022 at 13:43
All Knwoing All Seeing
Back to Top
cheshire exile View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2447 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 17:43
Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

QUOTE] 

Just because the 3 teams at top of Nat2N will end up with more points than those at the top of Nat2S doesn't mean they are better - could just be the fact that with the exception of a couple of teams Nat2S has more good teams than Nat2N

Or,  there could be a lot of mediocre teams in N2S who all struggle to beat each other. Who cares. 

The reason that Clubs in the South are more successful and field more teams is a question of greater available resources, which are attracted south by more opportunities for jobs/careers etc but, let's not get into politics.
Tell the residents of Redruth and Camborne that there are more career opportunities. Extraordinary.
Back to Top
dropout22 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 03 Jul 2017
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 516 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dropout22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 19:36
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

QUOTE] 

Just because the 3 teams at top of Nat2N will end up with more points than those at the top of Nat2S doesn't mean they are better - could just be the fact that with the exception of a couple of teams Nat2S has more good teams than Nat2N

Or,  there could be a lot of mediocre teams in N2S who all struggle to beat each other. Who cares. 

The reason that Clubs in the South are more successful and field more teams is a question of greater available resources, which are attracted south by more opportunities for jobs/careers etc but, let's not get into politics.
Tell the residents of Redruth and Camborne that there are more career opportunities. Extraordinary.

Good point.
Back to Top
Sid James View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Location: East Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1643 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 22:49
Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

QUOTE] 

Just because the 3 teams at top of Nat2N will end up with more points than those at the top of Nat2S doesn't mean they are better - could just be the fact that with the exception of a couple of teams Nat2S has more good teams than Nat2N

Or,  there could be a lot of mediocre teams in N2S who all struggle to beat each other. Who cares. 

The reason that Clubs in the South are more successful and field more teams is a question of greater available resources, which are attracted south by more opportunities for jobs/careers etc but, let's not get into politics.
Tell the residents of Redruth and Camborne that there are more career opportunities. Extraordinary.

Good point.

Great point. Hadn't noticed Redruth and Camborne in Nat 1. recently.
Never heard of London then?


Edited by Sid James - 25 Mar 2022 at 22:54
All Knwoing All Seeing
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.