National League Rugby Discussion Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > Clubhouse chat
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Racism in Rugby
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Racism in Rugby - Event Date: 21 Oct 2022
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
WEvans View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 1376 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Calendar Event: Racism in Rugby
    Posted: 06 Apr 2023 at 15:51
Sadly you are right tigerburnie. For me the only surprise would have been if the investigation had found there was no racism in rugby.
Back to Top
tigerburnie View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 3645 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2023 at 04:17
I hope it isn't a problem going forwards, but sport reflects society, it's rife in every day life, not just a "white" problem either, Muslims and Hindus clash as do other religious splits, Catholics and Protestants all show a lack of tolerance, sadly some of it is ingrained and is centuries old.
Back to Top
Steve@Mose View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2761 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2023 at 00:38
Luther Burrell: Ex-England centre has 'closure' after RFU investigation finds racism claims were true

Quote
Former England centre Luther Burrell says he is "proud" and has "a sense of closure" after a Rugby Football Union investigation found his claims of racism in the sport were true.

Last year the governing body looked into Burrell's allegations, taking over an inquiry launched by Newcastle Falcons - his final club.

The RFU says the report - published on Tuesday and in which no individuals are named - concludes his claims were true "on balance of probability" and that his evidence was "reliable".

It says there is "insufficient evidence" to say all the abuse happened at Newcastle, apart from a player's WhatsApp message "which contained a cloudberry comment".

But Burrell - who has not identified those involved - was also found to have suffered two further incidents of verbal cloudberry abuse.

...

Burrell, 35, who is of Jamaican descent, spoke out in June 2022 about his experiences, saying cloudberry "banter" had become "normalised" among team-mates and that racism was "rife" in the sport.

"To call anybody a slave is not funny, so it was abhorrent behaviour. It was something that affects my dignity as a player, it affects me as a human as a father," he said after being presented with the findings of the investigation.

The report said the RFU should consider launching a further disciplinary inquiry, but in a statement the governing body said it had chosen not to and "instead will continue to work with the club" to improve training and whistleblowing processes.

When asked why he had not identified those responsible for what he called "abhorrent" abuse, Burrell said: "This has not been a witch hunt.

"It's not about retribution. This is about me finally having my voice heard. I've always said that this has ultimately not been about me, this has been about generational change within the sport."

"I hope that they feel a sense of embarrassment that they publicly said that to me in a working space. However, this is not about me victimising them, because they have livelihoods, they have families."

...

The RFU says a new action plan to tackle discrimination has been "accelerated in light of Luther's experience", and that research conducted last year found:

  • "In every area of elite rugby - men's and women's, national team, clubs and academies - players had experienced some form of racism."
  • "Classism is an issue which affects the game and fuels an elitist perception."
  • "Reporting of incidents of discrimination is low across the elite game."
  • "The burden to call out poor behaviour and discrimination tends to land on under-represented groups."
  • "Efforts by the game to respond to discrimination to date, while well intended, have been either short-lived or perceived as performative."
  • "While there is a sense that discrimination is decreasing in the game broadly, this trend is moving at a slower pace for women and ethnically diverse communities."
Back to Top
Happy View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 06 Sep 2019
Location: Sevenoaks
Status: Offline
Points: 173 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 20:27
Will be interesting to see how seriously the RFU take this as a complaint was made to the RFU about cloudberry language in our match today. Fingers crossed they do better than they have with other items of governance 
Back to Top
tulip View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Location: W Yorks
Status: Offline
Points: 2167 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2023 at 09:48

Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

Have the RFU  posted any findings from this enquiry ?.

Well the RFU started their inquiry in July so I think it would be optimistic No7 to have any findings yet
Back to Top
tigerburnie View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 3645 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2023 at 15:46
We don't seem to have a tumbleweed emoji......................................................
Back to Top
No 7 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Location: LONDON
Status: Offline
Points: 1866 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote No 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2023 at 11:17
Have the RFU  posted any findings from this enquiry ?.
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
Back to Top
WEvans View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 1376 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2022 at 11:48
Originally posted by former9 former9 wrote:

I cannot believe that I am reading this thread, well done Richard. 

What is Racism? With some discussing historic comedy shows (Oh dear). I think that confirms most have not got a clue. It's more than just words - just saying.





Again, please read what I wrote. I was talking about comedy shows years ago which reflected public tolerance to racism then which might (I emphasise the word might) have explained why comments within rugby clubs then weren't challenged - being that rugby clubs are a part of society in general .

And of course racism is more than just words but words are usually the most obvious form of racism hence my example. 

Thankfully we have moved on now.

Debates such as this can be useful but not if people are going to for whatever reason misrepresent and misinterpret what others are saying to argue their point as is happening here.




Edited by WEvans - 13 Nov 2022 at 11:54
Back to Top
Sid James View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Location: East Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1645 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2022 at 22:03
Originally posted by former9 former9 wrote:

I cannot believe that I am reading this thread, well done Richard. 

What is Racism? With some discussing historic comedy shows (Oh dear). I think that confirms most have not got a clue. It's more than just words - just saying.


I also cannot believe what I am reading. Please don't tar everyone with the same brush, just because that is the easy option.
Yes, it is more than just words and Clubs all over the country have taken huge strides in stamping this out.
All Knwoing All Seeing
Back to Top
former9 View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 22 May 2010
Location: Devon
Status: Offline
Points: 204 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote former9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2022 at 21:16
I cannot believe that I am reading this thread, well done Richard. 

What is Racism? With some discussing historic comedy shows (Oh dear). I think that confirms most have not got a clue. It's more than just words - just saying.
"Nou aru taka wa tsume woka kusu"
The hawk with talent, hides its talons.
Back to Top
WEvans View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 1376 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2022 at 11:06
Originally posted by tulip tulip wrote:

Well I look forward to the forthcoming RFU report and hope that the 100 people they have interviewed were Rugby personnel  and not just members of the general public 

Rugby personnel are members of the general public. Rugby doesn't exist in some sort of vacuum. But as it is a report into racism in rugby I would hope the report spoke to people who are actively involved in rugby. That should go without saying as it is so blindingly obvious.
Back to Top
WEvans View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 1376 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2022 at 11:03
Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

Where is the dignity ?. He should name the people if he feels so strongly about whatever comments or attitudes the c aused him to state that racism is rife in Rugby Union. He would hold more dignity if he named and shamed the people he is referring to in my opinion.

In my opinion it's the sort of dignity that people like Martin Luther King showed many years ago in highlighting the problems to get change but not revenge.
Back to Top
tulip View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Location: W Yorks
Status: Offline
Points: 2167 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2022 at 21:10
Well I look forward to the forthcoming RFU report and hope that the 100 people they have interviewed were Rugby personnel  and not just members of the general public 
Back to Top
No 7 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Location: LONDON
Status: Offline
Points: 1866 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote No 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2022 at 20:09
Where is the dignity ?. He should name the people if he feels so strongly about whatever comments or attitudes the c aused him to state that racism is rife in Rugby Union. He would hold more dignity if he named and shamed the people he is referring to in my opinion.
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
Back to Top
WEvans View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 1376 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2022 at 16:54
Originally posted by tulip tulip wrote:

Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

I am finding it hard to understand how any rugby squad would except slurs or racial comments . Every rugby related enviroment I have been involved in over a 50 year period and with much higher number of mixed race players . In my experience no players would allow it to manifest into a problem . Most players/ coaches would shut down any person who behaved in that manner.

I would agree with that nowadays but a few (well quite a few) years ago those sort of comments were sadly commonplace and accepted as the norm and people simply didn't call them out - witness many TV programmes of the time - so I can quite believe they happened then.

I would also like to say that I believe Luther Burrell has behaved with enormous dignity in this matter.  

We are talking about “Racism being RIFE in Rugby “. 
What rugby television programs are you talking about

Let's not be silly. Rugby is played by people who are part of the general public and my comments were clearly made about public attitudes at the time which might have caused comments at rugby clubs to have gone unchallenged at the time.

But I think you knew that didn't you?


Edited by WEvans - 11 Nov 2022 at 16:55
Back to Top
tulip View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Location: W Yorks
Status: Offline
Points: 2167 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2022 at 14:10
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

I am finding it hard to understand how any rugby squad would except slurs or racial comments . Every rugby related enviroment I have been involved in over a 50 year period and with much higher number of mixed race players . In my experience no players would allow it to manifest into a problem . Most players/ coaches would shut down any person who behaved in that manner.

I would agree with that nowadays but a few (well quite a few) years ago those sort of comments were sadly commonplace and accepted as the norm and people simply didn't call them out - witness many TV programmes of the time - so I can quite believe they happened then.

I would also like to say that I believe Luther Burrell has behaved with enormous dignity in this matter.  

We are talking about “Racism being RIFE in Rugby “. 
What rugby television programs are you talking about
Back to Top
WEvans View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 1376 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2022 at 13:17
Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

I am finding it hard to understand how any rugby squad would except slurs or racial comments . Every rugby related enviroment I have been involved in over a 50 year period and with much higher number of mixed race players . In my experience no players would allow it to manifest into a problem . Most players/ coaches would shut down any person who behaved in that manner.

I would agree with that nowadays but a few (well quite a few) years ago those sort of comments were sadly commonplace and accepted as the norm and people simply didn't call them out - witness many TV programmes of the time - so I can quite believe they happened then.

I would also like to say that I believe Luther Burrell has behaved with enormous dignity in this matter.  


Edited by WEvans - 10 Nov 2022 at 13:17
Back to Top
No 7 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Location: LONDON
Status: Offline
Points: 1866 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote No 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2022 at 21:09
I am finding it hard to understand how any rugby squad would except slurs or racial comments . Every rugby related enviroment I have been involved in over a 50 year period and with much higher number of mixed race players . In my experience no players would allow it to manifest into a problem . Most players/ coaches would shut down any person who behaved in that manner.
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
Back to Top
Steve@Mose View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2761 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2022 at 19:02
Luther Burrell expects RFU racism investigation outcome soon

Quote
Former England centre Luther Burrell says the RFU investigation into his allegations of racism in rugby union has been completed and he expects an outcome in the coming weeks.

Burrell, 34, spoke out about his experiences in June, saying cloudberry "banter" had become "normalised" among team-mates and that racism was "rife" in the sport.

He said the response to him speaking out has been "95% positive" and that things are "going in the right direction".

The Rugby Football Union announced in July it would investigate Burrell's claims, essentially taking over an internal investigation that had been launched by Newcastle Falcons, Burrell's most recent club.

Burrell told BBC Sport: "The [RFU's] investigation has finished, the reports are currently being written, which will be submitted in the very near future. And then I would imagine something will be released.

"I do believe that they gathered information from the right areas, through speaking to myself and other players that have been in similar environments to me.

"They've gathered the information required to actually get a full determination of where this this was going on."

The RFU has confirmed that the investigation has been completed.

In response to Burrell's testimony, fellow players including England's Ellis Genge and Courtney Lawes said that anyone who racially abused him should be outed.

But Burrell stands by his decision not to name and shame those involved.

He said: "These guys rang me and said 'Why are you not naming them? I don't want to be on the same field as these guys that have said that to you'.

"I said 'Look, I completely understand that, and I do, but ultimately it hasn't happened to you, it's happened to me'.

"These players have wives and children, they have lives.

"I'm not going to point the finger at that person and ruin his life, on something that he's uneducated about. It's pretty much as simple as that.

"Do I think he is a cloudberry or whoever is a cloudberry? No, I don't. I believe that it's just naivety and something that's been apparent, because it's been allowed to be apparent. And now, do I think it's happening? I probably don't."

Burrell was speaking before the Barbarians' fixture against former club Northampton Saints on 26 November, for which he has been named in the provisional squad.

Several former Wasps and Worcester Warriors players are due to line up for the Barbarians, after both clubs went into administration.

Burrell said he was excited for what the occasion could achieve following a "very sad" period for the domestic game.

"These players that have lost jobs, lost clubs, for the Barbarians to put this on and the clubs to put this on and me to be part of that and help them on the big stage and let these lads shine is going to be fantastic," he said.

After spells at Leeds Carnegie and Sale Sharks, Burrell spent seven years at Saints from 2012 to 2019, winning the 2013-14 Premiership title and also making 15 appearances for England between 2014 and 2016.

He switched codes to play for rugby league side Warrington Wolves in 2019, before returning to union with Newcastle in 2020.

Burrell left Falcons in June, shortly after detailing his experiences of racism, and has revealed he is planning to play for a club in Japan from December.

"When I released the stuff about what I'd suffered throughout my career, ultimately I made a decision that I wasn't going to play in England any more," he added.

"I've achieved everything I could possibly achieve in this country."

Burrell said he is glad he spoke out.

"At first, naturally, it was difficult, I was scared I might get some backlash," he said.

"But I surrounded myself with some good people and made sure I was prepared for any sort of situation that could possibly come my way."
Back to Top
tulip View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Location: W Yorks
Status: Offline
Points: 2167 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2022 at 17:31
I probably haven’t put what I wanted to say very succinctly.All I wanted to say was in years of managing different ethnic Junior players I never experienced Racism.
I never said that was the norm. I’m sure it has happened at other clubs.
I’m sure that the horrendous things Luther Burrell experienced from fellow players is true. Unfortunately he won’t name names so I hope the managers coaches trainers etc are prepared to give the RFU investigation that information   
As far as I’m aware there hasn’t been a plethora of players saying Yes we experienced the same.
Perhaps the RFU will say I’m wrong 
All I was hoping to say was that In my humble opinion 
Racism is not RIFE in Rugby Union



Edited by tulip - 26 Oct 2022 at 17:43
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.