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Ealing Crowd numbers matter
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Runitback View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Dec 2022 at 13:43
I thought the crowd for Ealing V Jersey, the two best teams in the league was pitiful at just over 1400.

Sir Mike Gooley has put his heart on sole into Ealing and no doubt has legacy plans . . . but with the crowds they get not many current Premiership clubs are going to want them in the Cabal!

I have no doubt that Caldy would have got over 2000 if they had been playing at home during the Festive period.

There are other teams in the lower leagues consistently getting bigger crowds than Ealing. I cannot believe that just by getting in the Premiership their crowds will grow. That said they deserve a crack at the Premiership but to what purpose?

This is not an attack at Ealing but I just dont see the sense in the current model, if it were any other type of business the doors would have closed long ago or they would be a good local club playing at the appropriate level.
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I don't know what their average gate is but you have to factor in the scheduling of the game and the opposition support. Midday on Christmas Eve really doesn't help fans who are travelling to stay with family over Christmas, and the availability of flights would also have impacted the number of Jersey fans able to travel. I understand the kick-off was brought forward because the only flight out of Heathrow that afternoon had been rescheduled.

I really don't get the need for the constant digs at Ealing. They've got a business plan, and at the moment it's working. Their performance on Saturday shows that they are the best side in the league, and they deserve a crack at the big boys. Whether that business model is sustainable in the long-term is questionable, but Mr Gooley appears to have put plans in place to ensure the financial stability of the club once he is bo longer around. Of course there will be future challenges - it reminds me of Cecil Duckworth, and we all know how that ended up - and the lack of crowds is a concern, but we've always known that the market for rugby in London, and West London in particular is saturated. It's why Wasps moved away 20-odd years ago, and nothing has changed since. The one thing that might work in their favour is the complete overhaul of the top flight in two years' time, which might change the way the professional game is run, administered, marketed and promoted. In many way they're no more (or less) sustainable than any of the remaining Premiership clubs, so why shouldn't they be able to continue as long as the bills are being paid?
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Points: 3644 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2022 at 15:14
Rugby is a minority sport, crowds have always been small, Wasps used to play on a park before the game went pro, they moved grounds to fit in with the big boys, they had to find a proper ground, nothing to do with fan numbers. Crowds have grown for some clubs enormously since the game took the money. I used to go to Welford Road when the average gates were much lower than they are now, only the Christmas Barbarians game was a sell out and the Midlands playing touring Southern Hemisphere sides.
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Points: 1866 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote No 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2022 at 15:46
 The Ealing Trailfinders crowds are gradually growing but real Rugby Union supporters are a rare breed. Bedford Blues who have the best home support seem to have very few away supporters. You can not create a rugby fan  easily. It can be over complicated to understand and some times very boring to watch . The scrum is a lottery to who gets the penalty !. The breakdown / point of contact has so many restrictions and a penalty could and can be awarded at EVERY breakdown. Boxing Day would have been more desirable for most people.

Our best supported team, Bedford Blues  ( usually 2,000 to 3,000 ) is way off the amount of supporters to be a Premiership side. I attended a London Irish v Exeter game and the crowd was 11,555  ☆ ( previously  posted incorrect figure of 14,000 )That half filled the London Irish stadium, one end and one side with the rest unoccupied.

I think Ealing if they do enter the Premiership will be over run by visiting supporters.


Edited by No 7 - 28 Dec 2022 at 08:36
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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oneagainstthehead View Drop Down
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Points: 725 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneagainstthehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2022 at 16:15
Back in the late noughties, Ealing regularly got gates of +/- 2000. The fact that tickets were in the £5-£10 range may have had a lot to do with it. As tickets went to £10-£15, then £15-£20, gates dropped steadily, despite the vastly improved standard of rugby. Undoubtedly there are multiple factors involved, but ticket price is surely one of them.
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Points: 7361 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2022 at 19:27
Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

 

Our best supported team, Bedford Blues  ( usually 2,000 to 3,000 ) is way off the amount of supporters to be a Premiership side. I attended a London Irish v Exeter game and the crowd was 14,000. That almost exactly half filled the London Irish stadium, one end and one side with the rest unoccupied.


When was that game No7? I see the Irish/Chief match in Jan of this year got a crowd of 11,555. The capacity of the new ground in Brentford is 17,250, according to Wikipedia
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Agree with Mark WJ. Ealing have a very good squad, the ground is much improved and, with Trailfinders providing a serious amount of funding, they are financially viable without attracting big crowds. They certainly deserve their shot at the top flight if that's what they want.
At The Pirates it's the well known saga over the stadium which has held us back for years. That seems to be fading away unfortunately so the future is uncertain for us. Without Mr Evans we wouldn't have ever got to the Championship and we long term supporters have a had a blast over the past 20 years. Now things are different and promotion to the Prem doesn't look so attractive any more. Whether Championship rugby is sustainable in the long term if we remain in Penzance (which looks likely now) is another conundrum. 
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Interesting where you get you comments re Bedford Blues away fans they are far the best supported side away from home as well as at home. 
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Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

 The Ealing Trailfinders crowds are gradually growing but real Rugby Union supporters are a rare breed. Bedford Blues who have the best home support seem to have very few away supporters. You can not create a rugby fan  easily. It can be over complicated to understand and some times very boring to watch . The scrum is a lottery to who gets the penalty !. The breakdown / point of contact has so many restrictions and a penalty could and can be awarded at EVERY breakdown. Boxing Day would have been more desirable for most people.

Our best supported team, Bedford Blues  ( usually 2,000 to 3,000 ) is way off the amount of supporters to be a Premiership side. I attended a London Irish v Exeter game and the crowd was 14,000. That almost exactly half filled the London Irish stadium, one end and one side with the rest unoccupied.

I think Ealing if they do enter the Premiership will be over run by visiting supporters.

What are you basing the Bedford have very few away supporters comment on? I would be surprised if we don’t have the largest away travelling support in the league. We take at least one full coach to every game. When we played Ealing away in the cup semi a few years back, it was like a home game. For our home games, it feels like Pirates have the largest contingent but maybe they’re just the loudest!
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One of the biggest crowds I can remember at ODP was a play-off semi-final against Bedford about ten years ago - over 2k, of whom about two thirds were away supporters.
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Always is a long time.

Crowds in the 1880 were large, especially for Yorkshire Cup games.
The Yorkshire Cup Final was often better attended than the FA Cup final

But they were the only competitive games, there was no TV or Radio - though there were apparently what are now called "fan zones" where those unable to attend had the score relayed to them by telegraph.

I am just reading Tony Collins' book Rugby's Great Split. Great read.
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Originally posted by Mickyboy Mickyboy wrote:

Interesting where you get you comments re Bedford Blues away fans they are far the best supported side away from home as well as at home. 
Purely on numbers I fully agree with this - in terms of quality of banter Pirates & Donny are the currently best imo but Mighty Roth are most missed.
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Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

 

Our best supported team, Bedford Blues  ( usually 2,000 to 3,000 ) is way off the amount of supporters to be a Premiership side.

....
 

I have a different take on this. Rugby is a sport and to be a Premiership team you should only need to be one of the best dozen (or how ever many are in the league at the time) in the country.

If a club can achieve this with gates of 2,000 or even far less than that then they should be in the top division. Of course their ground should be safe for spectators  but that should be true of which ever league they are in.

It's time we started to look at rugby as a sport again and not a business.
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Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

 

Our best supported team, Bedford Blues  ( usually 2,000 to 3,000 ) is way off the amount of supporters to be a Premiership side.

....
 

I have a different take on this. Rugby is a sport and to be a Premiership team you should only need to be one of the best dozen (or how ever many are in the league at the time) in the country.

If a club can achieve this with gates of 2,000 or even far less than that then they should be in the top division. Of course their ground should be safe for spectators  but that should be true of which ever league they are in.

It's time we started to look at rugby as a sport again and not a business.



I tend to agree although in general the higher up your team in the league set-up the greater the attendance.
Bournemouth were sustainable in the football Premiership on crowds of 14 thousand or so.

Over 2000 at Redruth v Camborne on Boxing Day, doesn't make either team a Championship club though.


Edited by Redted - 28 Dec 2022 at 19:42
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When Cambridge and Shelford were both at Level 4 or was it 5, the crowds were over 2,000

Didn't I read that Blues / Amps were 5,000 last week at Goldington Road?

The crowds are there, it just needs something special to drag them out of their armchairs!
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Blues was a 5,000 crowd (sold out over 2 weeks before) and could probably have been 7,500+ if we could get them in. Even if it was not an Ampthill game it would have been 5,000, as it is a bit of a tradition.

Boxing Day for the Blues is always a big money day!
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Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Blues was a 5,000 crowd (sold out over 2 weeks before) and could probably have been 7,500+ if we could get them in. Even if it was not an Ampthill game it would have been 5,000, as it is a bit of a tradition.

Boxing Day for the Blues is always a big money day!

We wouldn’t know what we would get as a Boxing Day fixture as Jersey have never been awarded a home tie in all the years that we have played at this level.
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Originally posted by Brizzer Brizzer wrote:

Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Blues was a 5,000 crowd (sold out over 2 weeks before) and could probably have been 7,500+ if we could get them in. Even if it was not an Ampthill game it would have been 5,000, as it is a bit of a tradition.

Boxing Day for the Blues is always a big money day!

We wouldn’t know what we would get as a Boxing Day fixture as Jersey have never been awarded a home tie in all the years that we have played at this level.

This is where the league has changed for the worse, as before you would either get a Boxing Day game or one on or near to New Years Day, so all clubs had one home and one away game so could benefit from a bumper gate.
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Maybe it's a name thing. Ealing sounds like somewhere you get lost in London.

Premiership Clubs don't make a fuss about their location:-

Saracens are not called Barnet
Quins are not called Twickenham
London Irish are not called Brentford
Wasps are not called M1/M45 or currently 'Solihull ????'
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Originally posted by Geoff DC Geoff DC wrote:

Maybe it's a name thing. Ealing sounds like somewhere you get lost in London.

Premiership Clubs don't make a fuss about their location:-

Saracens are not called Barnet
Quins are not called Twickenham
London Irish are not called Brentford
Wasps are not called M1/M45 or currently 'Solihull ????'
You’re quite right on one thing - Saracens are named none of these things; just an 800 hundred year old somewhat ra*cist epithet. Oh dear…


Edited by oneagainstthehead - 28 Dec 2022 at 20:38
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