National League Rugby Discussion Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > The Championship
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Jersey Reds - Administration???
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Jersey Reds - Administration???

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 12>
Author
Message
Big Eddie View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5029
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 13:42
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

My worry is that Jersey went into the season with a business plan that essentially says "A miracle happens here"

They needed extra investment to pay the first month's salary.
They obviously thought they had a backer willing to put in money - but unless the ink is dry and yo have seen the money - it is a gamble.

This is the second season in three that Cambridge will lose a home game due to a club collapsing in the weeks before the league season starts.

Pirates will not be able to cancel the staffing, suppers for tomorrow, so lose that and the gate money.

Hopefully, teams will be able to get their travel spend for Jersey back. If they can that might just compensate for the loss of a home game.

A lot of supporters will not.

What was the RFU doing?

Camqui's point and the points made by others are valid. 

However for those running the company behind Jersey Reds it is a very tough business/financial call. It maybe that the existing investors and possibly potential new investors were holding out the promise of further funding depending on the outcome of talks with the RFU, the financial windfall of the game against Exeter Chiefs etc.

For a sports business the decision and timing of when to pull the plug is almost certainly binary. In other businesses that market to other businesses you may be able to reduce costs in stages with redundancies and other cost cutting measures and still retain operational effectiveness and potentially your client base.

When your customers are the public and your major costs are a squad of players and coaches it would be very difficult to incrementally scale back......This will all be a hindsight test for the liquidator but I suspect that Jersey's board of directors would have considered the position prior to the start of the season and probably had a financial plan which although perhaps dependent on further investment was considered to be reasonable with a likely prospect of the further investment (probably based on talks with existing investors).

If you pull the plug too early you could be viewed as destroying a viable business and impacting creditors/staff and shareholders..........pull the plug too late and you will be accused of not acting soon enough. It is a horrible dilemma and most boards will be advised by experienced professionals to assist in making such a decision.

I have been in the above position a number of times and thankfully was always on the right side of the decision but some were spectacularly close calls with either trade sales or further investment (which had being worked on for many months) being finally secured at a few minutes to midnight. 

It is a very difficult position to be in and requires very close monitoring of all the facts on a daily basis to determine when the realistic prospect of being able to continue to trade has evaporated. Some times this can be quite a few months ahead of actually running out of cash but often because of the realistic prospect of a trade sale or further investment, (which has likely been worked on for months) it runs right up to the wire and sometimes it only falls over at the final hurdle when the buyer or investor gets cold feet.

I have also been in situations where directors with no equity interest in the business have turned turtle at the first whiff of financial difficulty and have pushed for Administration at way too early a juncture before the options to salvage the business have been properly explored. 

In both these cases the businesses were saved through a combination of a solvent transaction and an improvement in trading through the extremely hard work and tireless efforts of the other directors and the staff and employees. 

It is always very difficult for all involved and I would never judge any business in this situation until I knew all the facts which are usually uncovered by the Administrator/Liquidator and set out in their reports.




Edited by Big Eddie - 28 Sep 2023 at 14:05
''The future isn't what it used to be''
Back to Top
Steve@Mose View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2761
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 13:59
RFU Statement:

Quote
The RFU has been informed that Jersey Reds has taken the decision to cease trading following unsuccessful discussions with both existing and potential new investors. We, like their players, staff and supporters are deeply concerned by this news.  The RFU is working with the Rugby Players Association to support the players.
 
It is extremely disappointing that investors would take decisions at this early point in the season to place the club in such a position. Championship clubs had clear confirmation from the RFU on funding for the 2023/24 season and we have been working with the Championship and Premiership Rugby on the new Professional Game Partnership and shape of Premiership 2 with funding levels to be confirmed at the end of this calendar year. The Championship has been fully involved in these discussions since February which are aimed at stabilising and strengthening the professional game.
 
This news will clearly impact the season for the Championship league and Premiership Rugby Cup competition, which was introduced this season as a way to offer a new format to supporters, bringing with it the experience of playing Premiership sides and the opportunity to welcome new fans into Championship clubs and assist them to grow new audiences. 
 
Further information on the impact of this to the Premiership Rugby Cup and Championship League season will follow.
Back to Top
corporalcarrot View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Location: St Brelade
Status: Offline
Points: 4724
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 13:59
Originally posted by Stoatgobbler Stoatgobbler wrote:

Interesting to read the BBC article on this, says

"Reds split from Jersey RFC in 2022 and went on to win the league and reach the Championship Cup final in May.".

I did not know that.
Does this suggest an amateur Jersey are still playing somewhere?
Yes Amateur & Ladies thriving thankfully Jersey RFC (rfu.club)
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
Back to Top
Sid James View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Location: East Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1645
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 14:02
Originally posted by Brizzer Brizzer wrote:

Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

I am as unhappy with the RFU as many others involved in RU today but, why is it when a Club spends money it hasn't got or commits to expenses it can't meet, everyone immediately blames the RFU?

Where did you get that from? According to our DOR our average salary was 25k. Not exactly paying over the odds.

I didn't mention players salaries being the issue alone but I can imagine that trying to maintain a certain level of success on the field by offering incentives you cannot meet is 'paying over the odds'.
I read thst between 2019 & 2022, Reds received funding of £575,000pa from Jersey's government/the taxpayer (nice if you can get it!). This has now ceased and I expect this must be a contributing factor to their problems.

All Knwoing All Seeing
Back to Top
Big Eddie View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5029
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 14:21
One thing is sure in all of this:

- after 3 Premiership clubs have folded and now one Championship club and 
- the RFU is forecast by some commentators to make £ gazillions of losses over the next few years

the prospects of fresh investment into rugby is rapidly diminishing from a position where it was unlikely to now a position where its is probably vanishingly small. There is no clear blueprint that says this is how you make a financial return from an investment in club rugby........but there are now an increasing number of case studies that say this is how you can lose all your money by investing in club rugby.

This could result in other financially struggling professional rugby clubs (which could be most of them) pulling the plug earlier than they may otherwise have done so as one of the defences against directors being accused of 'wrongfully trading' (and thus opening up the directors to personal liability) of having a realistic prospect of fresh investment will be more difficult to credibly advance.

The financial climate doesn't look good for professional rugby in England



Edited by Big Eddie - 28 Sep 2023 at 14:37
''The future isn't what it used to be''
Back to Top
Moseley Mauler View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
Moseley

Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moseley Mauler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 14:38
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:


The financial climate doesn't look good for professional rugby in England

Back to Top
Moseley Mauler View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
Moseley

Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moseley Mauler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 14:39
Originally posted by Moseley Mauler Moseley Mauler wrote:

Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:


The financial climate doesn't look good for professional rugby in England

Oops pressed something too soon.  It hasn't from the very start Eddie

Back to Top
Big Eddie View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5029
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 14:41
Originally posted by Steve@Mose Steve@Mose wrote:

RFU Statement:

Quote
The RFU has been informed that Jersey Reds has taken the decision to cease trading following unsuccessful discussions with both existing and potential new investors. We, like their players, staff and supporters are deeply concerned by this news.  The RFU is working with the Rugby Players Association to support the players.
 
It is extremely disappointing that investors would take decisions at this early point in the season to place the club in such a position. Championship clubs had clear confirmation from the RFU on funding for the 2023/24 season and we have been working with the Championship and Premiership Rugby on the new Professional Game Partnership and shape of Premiership 2 with funding levels to be confirmed at the end of this calendar year. The Championship has been fully involved in these discussions since February which are aimed at stabilising and strengthening the professional game.
 

The RFU seem to be signalling that Jersey's insolvency is down to their existing investors..........does the RFU know the full circumstances before they have leapt to this judgement?
''The future isn't what it used to be''
Back to Top
Moseley Mauler View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
Moseley

Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 638
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moseley Mauler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 14:43
Biljon says that the club hasn't overspent.  Well, clearly they have because they relied on only potential investment
Back to Top
corporalcarrot View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Location: St Brelade
Status: Offline
Points: 4724
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 15:19
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Originally posted by Steve@Mose Steve@Mose wrote:

RFU Statement:

Quote
The RFU has been informed that Jersey Reds has taken the decision to cease trading following unsuccessful discussions with both existing and potential new investors. We, like their players, staff and supporters are deeply concerned by this news.  The RFU is working with the Rugby Players Association to support the players.
 
It is extremely disappointing that investors would take decisions at this early point in the season to place the club in such a position. Championship clubs had clear confirmation from the RFU on funding for the 2023/24 season and we have been working with the Championship and Premiership Rugby on the new Professional Game Partnership and shape of Premiership 2 with funding levels to be confirmed at the end of this calendar year. The Championship has been fully involved in these discussions since February which are aimed at stabilising and strengthening the professional game.
 

The RFU seem to be signalling that Jersey's insolvency is down to their existing investors..........does the RFU know the full circumstances before they have leapt to this judgement?
I think its called managing the narrative mate. The RFU will look to deflect the blame but why on earth would potential investors inject funds with such a lack of clarity. Players & other staff are typically paid on the last business day each month and without the necessary going concern support from investors another cracking rugby club falls.  
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
Back to Top
Big Eddie View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5029
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 15:51
I am sure you are right CC.......however managing the narrative in this way is not only counter productive it almost certainly does a disservice to the investors as it somehow suggests that the existing investors 'pulled their funds out'.

I very much doubt that was the case it being very much more likely that the existing investors declined to put more money in....and why should they if they do not believe there is any clarity on how they could possibly get a return or get their money back.

The RFU have just added another reason for not investing in rugby.......the opprobrium from the governing body if the club fails.......I found that shocking and distasteful and unlikely to encourage other investors.

I have often taken the RFU to task for ineptitude and their almost total focus on the elite game. However, although I believe they have mismanaged the rugby landscape they can only be peripherally at fault in Jersey's woe's so I wouldn't lay the fault for Jersey's insolvency directly at the RFU's door. 

There are a number of very high net worth investors in Premiership clubs that must wish they had never invested in rugby and would love to walk away rather than continuously pump funds into a market place and business model that shows absolutely no signs of ever generating a return.

I would reckon that some of these VHNWIs would probably love to cut their losses and walk away from their dire investments with perhaps no money but perhaps some dignity intact. Today's pronouncement by the RFU castigating Jersey's investors may just have given these Premiership VHNWIs the excuse they need to walk away and halt their continual multi million £ leakage!


Edited by Big Eddie - 28 Sep 2023 at 16:13
''The future isn't what it used to be''
Back to Top
tulip View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Location: W Yorks
Status: Offline
Points: 2167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 16:23
RFU accounts up to June 22. look fairly healthy £95 million profit to reserves. 
Sweeney and his head man and woman £1.5 million in salary
What on earth do they do to earn that. England international teams cost £21 million. Most people would pull on an England jersey for pride alone 
Same old story the rich get richer and the poor get poorer 


Edited by tulip - 28 Sep 2023 at 16:35
Back to Top
gerg_861 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2017
Location: Ealing
Status: Offline
Points: 2543
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 16:33
Terrible news. I only made it to Jersey for one match, but the hospitality and welcome were excellent. The title race last year was thrilling, and Rugby as a whole will suffer from the Championship Champs becoming insolvent.
Back to Top
L33 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 30 May 2008
Location: Rugby
Status: Offline
Points: 523
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote L33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 16:52
Rugby has changed, clubs cannot operate the way the did 10 years ago. 

Look at the clubs who are thriving and doing well. 
Clubs with M&J players, Women's teams, 2XV/3XV teams.
1 team clubs are struggling. 
Clubs need income every month just not during the rugby season. Private functions etc keep clubs going. 

You can not be reliant on the RFU and blaming them for Jersey/other clubs  going bust. Clubs need to be self sufficient especially below Premiership. 

I feel for the players who have been put in this situation especially as the season has started and clubs may have budgets etc sorted. 
Back to Top
OldNick View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 20 May 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Online
Points: 3414
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldNick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 17:04
Statement issued by Coventry Rugby Club...



Back to Top
Steve@Mose View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2761
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 17:09
Jersey Reds players could be 'stranded' after Championship club ceases trading

Quote
Jersey Reds players risk being "stranded" on the island after the Championship club ceased trading.

Players were told early on Thursday morning that the club was closing down after an investor pulled out, leaving Reds unable to meet the payroll due on Friday.

Up to 70 players, coaches and support staff have been affected.

"The timing of it is terrible," director of rugby Harvey Biljon told BBC Channel Islands.

"It's the end of the month, so they won't get paid in the next couple of days, and I can assure you some of these guys won't even have the funds to book a flight to get on to the mainland or get home.

"Those are some of the guys who are from Australia or South Africa, they'll be stranded."

Jersey's squad, who won the Championship title last season, had been due to board a flight at 08:00 BST on Thursday morning to take them to their Premiership Rugby Cup game at Cornish Pirates on Saturday.

Instead, the players were called to the club's ground at St Peter at 07:30 and given the news they were out of jobs.

"It's destroying for everyone and their families as well," centre Dan Barnes told BBC Channel Islands.

"It doesn't just affect us as players, it affects the whole network, families.

"They've got kids, rent to pay, bills to pay, and one day before getting paid to be told that an investor has pulled out doesn't make sense to us.

"At seven o'clock this morning I was a rugby player for Jersey Reds with a job; at 10 o'clock, now I'm not."
Back to Top
WEvans View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 1376
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 17:10
Originally posted by L33 L33 wrote:

Rugby has changed, clubs cannot operate the way the did 10 years ago. 

Look at the clubs who are thriving and doing well. 
Clubs with M&J players, Women's teams, 2XV/3XV teams.
1 team clubs are struggling. 
Clubs need income every month just not during the rugby season. Private functions etc keep clubs going. 

You can not be reliant on the RFU and blaming them for Jersey/other clubs  going bust. Clubs need to be self sufficient especially below Premiership. 

I feel for the players who have been put in this situation especially as the season has started and clubs may have budgets etc sorted. 

I agree with a lot of what you say. Those clubs you describe as thriving are of course those at National League level and below. The professional game in this country is a basket case and has been for years.

The "thriving" clubs are of course thriving despite and not because of the RFU who have all but abandoned them by cutting funding and leaving them in a state of perpetual uncertainty about the league structure they play in. 

Mr Sweeney and his mates have proved themselves totally unfit for purpose for years now and it's pointless expecting them to be of any help whatsoever to the professional game.

The solution? I honestly don't think there is one for professional rugby in this country. As hard as it will be for the clubs and their supporters the best hope in my opinion is for the whole professional structure to implode and then for us to start again building a properly sustainable structure but that would require an enormous dose of realism and there seems very little sign of that at the moment.

We have waved goodbye to Wasps, Worcester and London Irish and now saying farewell to Jersey. Who next? Bristol, Exeter, Quins, Leicester? Take your pick they and many others are just one withdrawing sugar daddy/investor from oblivion.  
Back to Top
Scrumtime View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Location: London
Status: Online
Points: 835
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 17:14
The point I was making was Jersey should not be in this position 
They won the Champ last year 
They should be at the top table 
They should be receiving the funding that the other Prem sides get whilst plying their rugby in the Prem 

It’s sport, you win the league you gain promotion and the rewards that come with it 

Not …sorry your not on our list…you cannot come in 

The RFU might as well make a list of who are and are not acceptable 

I would hate to think what they would do with Exeter under todays so call rules 
Back to Top
Big Eddie View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5029
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 17:20
Originally posted by L33 L33 wrote:

Rugby has changed, clubs cannot operate the way the did 10 years ago. 

Look at the clubs who are thriving and doing well. 
Clubs with M&J players, Women's teams, 2XV/3XV teams.
1 team clubs are struggling. 
Clubs need income every month just not during the rugby season. Private functions etc keep clubs going. 

You can not be reliant on the RFU and blaming them for Jersey/other clubs  going bust. Clubs need to be self sufficient especially below Premiership. 

I feel for the players who have been put in this situation especially as the season has started and clubs may have budgets etc sorted. 

A lot of truths there L33. 

However there is some indirect culpability at the RFU's door because they are complicit with the PRL regarding what is essentially a cartel which has not allowed the winners of the Championship to obtain access to the Premiership and the funding that is provided by the RFU.

Your points are also valid in respect of the Premiership which all would probably be bust if the RFU withdrew the funding that they subsidise the Premiership clubs with.

The anger and hostility generally directed at the senior management of the RFU stems mostly from the inequitable distribution of RFU funding. To be honest I don't know what the solution is but I do know that Professional rugby in England is in big big trouble!
''The future isn't what it used to be''
Back to Top
Runitback View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 22 Sep 2014
Location: North
Status: Offline
Points: 1210
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 18:00
Put simply:

The Directors are culpable having previously had to sell all their assets to pay off debts of £1.5m

So their business model was obviously not sustainable.

The RFU are culpable as their governance is poor to non existent and they have failed to provide a workable league structure . ..  which is still in flux and Championship clubs have no idea what next season looks like.

I feel desperately sorry for all staff and supporters and all suppliers . . I expect other clubs to follow.

However, this also paves the way for the RFU to bring back Wasps into the Championship!!! 

All a farce and the sooner Sweeney and OShea leave the better . . the RFU needs a radical shake up!

Run with it
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.