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Sell all the RFU's assets to the highest bidder

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Berksrugby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Berksrugby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2024 at 19:23
I'm afraid none of the above has persuaded me, the whole idea is for the birds. Its a utopian fantasy, which if ever allowed to pass, would see the decimation of rugby union in this country beyond repair (and certainly beyond the tribulations currently facing the game). 

As the other poster pointed out quite rightly, several 100's of clubs would take the handout and run, with their clubs going under a short time later when the freebie ran out, mismanaged by clubmen who, although well intentioned, on the whole would squander such an amount of capital chasing short term glory. In no small part, unlike yourself as an accountant and numbers man, because they lack a grasp of financial common sense and business acumen.

I'm talking about the sorts of chairman, treasurers, presidents that harbour aspirations of elevating their club 'up the ladder' to fulfil their dreams and, in some cases, massage their egos in the community - I've seen it before, and it can have long lasting negative effects on players, coaches, and the whole fabric of a rugby club.

Like was also mentioned by someone, your idea would erode the actual community game (which in the truest sense is actually some way below the Championship), and in 5 to 10 years time you would have yet more land (formerly pitches 1 - 3 at 'Old Farts RFC') sold off to property developers to build more houses/flats that no one asked for.

This is not a realistic and progressive vision for rugby union in England that I can entertain, if only for the sake of the fact that I would like my grandchildren to actually still have a local club in existence to play at in the next few years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2024 at 19:04
Would the Twickenham debenture holders not have a say?

There was a big number for them in the latest rfu financials.
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Big Eddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2024 at 18:20
Berksrugby,

What is happening at the moment is that 10 Premiership Clubs are getting the majority of RFU resources and will almost certainly continue to do so at the expense of the Community Clubs......who are likely to get nothing or virtually nothing from the RFU ......ever!

Each club (Community or Premiership) have a single share in the RFU......there will be perceived winners and losers amongst the Community Clubs as they will all get the same payout....but it is likely to measure in the £ hundreds of thousands for each club.

The Rules of the RFU and its ownership will proscribe how the proceeds will be divided.....and it will be almost certainly proportionate to shareholding.......just as it should be, not just 10 shareholders scooping up the majority of the resources.

I have no regard for the Premiership clubs, they are owned by very,very rich individuals and have received most of the RFU's money for the last 20 years.......if it is such a great business and such a great investment CVC can bankroll them and let the Community Game get on with what the RFU should have been all about.

Just to provide a little context I am a Chartered Accountant and a Corporate Financier.....I have been advising on and managing such transactions for the last 30 years... generally in the £10s of millions not the £100s of millions (except for one international deal which was of such a size as this transaction could be ).

Big deals such as this are made to work because :

i) It makes real sense for such a transaction as each group of shareholders are freed up to pursue their differing strategic objectives

ii) There is enough in it to galvanise and motivate a very substantial number of small shareholders

iii) the fees  for the lawyers, corporate financiers and accountants are very big and the best firms want to get involved.

Trust me Berksrugby...this could happen!
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Richard Lowther View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2024 at 18:17
Twickenham is the RFUs cash cow.
You don't sell your major money making assets without a plan to replace them cheaper but still maintain the same if not higher income. *
If you were proposing selling to rebuild bigger and better ** elsewhere, outside of London, then I could understand your plan but as it stands it is pure madness. 

You would leave the future game having to hire, at great expense, future venues and with none of the ancillary revenue; you would leave the game in the hands of TV men hidden behind a pay wall, withering away from the general public that you need to attract for the future

The last thing I would do is give clubs £500,000. I suspect it would be spent tomorrow with nothing to show for it long term. Every player would scramble for a pay day, every charlatan would be looking for a pay out. 

We've seen this when clubs sell grounds and use the revenue to try and buy success and then struggle to find a new home better than what they've given up. We would see members cash out with no thought for future generations. 

It would kill the game that you are trying to protect. 

* The FA briefly considered selling Wembley and then came to their senses. 

** Football even with billions of TV revenue realises the importance of owning a ground and match day income, that's why the rebuild to include corporate hospitality, ie at the new Tottenham Ground


Edited by Richard Lowther - 09 Jan 2024 at 18:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2024 at 17:56
I concur but there may be the residual contractual liability of losses from participating in 6N, WC and Autumn Internationals.

The other issue is that the armed forces regiments and Oxford/Cambridge are also members.

It would cause chaos in the players market as the community game is levelled with equally funded player salaries and then has clubs going under once they've spent their pot of gold.

Bonus is freedom from RFU and CVC. Perhaps also implementation of transfer fees up into good ship CVC

Having said all this, it's a great idea.
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Berksrugby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berksrugby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2024 at 17:50
Big Eddie, or should I say Comrade Red Eddie?! I'm only joking, but I have followed these forum topics around the RFU and their plans for Premiership 2 with interest.

No one can fault your clear passion and enthusiasm in opposing the way in which the RFU are running the game, but I'm afraid the suggestion you put forward here is absurd. Coups rarely end well, and there are far too many nuances between clubs in the Community Game (which are those at Level 6/7 and below in reality where no players are paid/enticed/sponsored etc) to simply divvy up £500k each.

A fairly local example of this for me would be between Reading RFC, who run 3 men's teams (Levels 6 - 9), vets, ladies, minis to colts (boys and girls) mixed ability (special needs) and walking rugby teams who, under your plan, would receive the same amount as Berkshire Shire Hall, who play 20 yards away on a neighbouring pitch, but who are a seperate club and run a single men's team at Level 9. 

As you can see, the rugby landscape is so varied and I'm sure this example would be replicated all over the country. How do you actually determine who gets what and under what criteria? A logistical, and even ethical nightmare.
I'm afraid that this is just one flaw of your vision that jumped out at me right away, before I even give thought to the remainder of the proposals. 

I see that you are a Caldy supporter, and so watch Championship rugby. As a passing thought, how do you imagine some of your opponents, the likes of Ealing or Doncaster, as aspiring Premiership-quality outfits, would take to your proposals. Given that they employ full time professional players and staff in the same way that the demonised Premiership clubs do. Again, where do you draw the line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2024 at 16:37
Under another thread in Clubhouse Chat I posted a reply to Richard Lowther setting out how I would engage with all 2,000 Community Clubs to prompt action to cleanse the 'rotten borough' that is the RFU. I have reproduced my post in italics below:

I believe that it is time to uncouple the 10 Premiership Clubs and the rest of the elite game from the 2,000 or so other Community Clubs. All 2,000 Community clubs own the RFU but most of the RFU's resources are directed to the elite game and the 10 Premiership clubs.

The interests of the 10 Premiership shareholders and the elite game are vastly different and the RFU is no longer looking after the majority but only the tiny minority.

Dissolve the RFU by selling all its assets and distributing the proceeds proportionately. The numbers and rationale make perfect sense


As at June 23 Twickenham is sitting in the books of the RFU at a value of some £250m and the RFU has total net assets of £283m

On the basis that I believe King Billy could sell out Twickenham to CVC and divert the cash to the elite game and the Premiership here is my alternative.

1. Member clubs put forward a resolution to sell Twickenham and the rest of the RFU's assets to the highest bidder - after settling creditors and on the basis it currently isn't a forced sale I expect the pot to be considerably north of £1 billion (10 x 2023 Operating profit of £103m before Rugby Investment)

2. The £1 billion is distributed proportionately to Member clubs - say £500k each

3. The Premiership clubs each get £500k as do the Community Clubs

4. King Billy and CVC look after the running of the Elite game and the Premiership.

5. The Community Clubs set up their own organisation which is likely to comprise the handful of people that the RFU previously employed to look after the Community Game

This should happen because otherwise all the underlying assets that in reality belong to the Member clubs will be syphoned off to the uninvestable Premiership.

In any corporate situation where the interests of the shareholders were so diverse......a sale of the assets or the body corporate would be an obvious solution. It is radical but having considered most of the other scenarios I have concluded that any other course of action would just be tinkering and would not address the fundamental issue.

My concern if this radical course of action isn't undertaken is that the 2,000 or so Community Clubs will only see a few crumbs from King Billy's table as most of the resources are syphoned off to the Premiership and CVC. This way each Community Club will get its fair share of the RFU's net assets which will be an equitable outcome.

This would go to a vote of the clubs at an AGM or a Special General Meeting....two thirds would need to approve so checks and balances in place 

This can be done and should be done!



Edited by Big Eddie - 09 Jan 2024 at 16:46
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