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Grass roots stirring

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Camquin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2025 at 14:18
If you are a club playing in the county league on a park pitch - the shenanigans at Twickenham are less important than whether the council will be able to keep maintaining the grass, and where to find sufficient players.

And it seems neither side really had arguments that inspired those clubs to vote.
Sweeney Delenda Est
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dalesman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2025 at 15:11
[QUOTE=Nat1]Interesting to see how vocal Wayne Barnes has been in supporting Sweeney et al. Obviously a well respected former international referee in his day, but is he now on the RFU payroll at Twickenham in some other capacity?

The Telegraph today quoted Wayne Barnes RFU remuneration at £25,000 - a not inconsiderable little perk and presumably why he had to speak against the motion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neasham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2025 at 15:28
Has anyone seen a figure for how much the RFU spends on Council members (and spouses)  - travel, subsistence, dinners and hospitality around England games etc. ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2025 at 16:39
It's all right there is a Government led inquiry going on into all this......................................oh hang on that was years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2025 at 17:35
My initial reaction was that if you have as much outrage as there was when the Sweeney bonus news first surfaced, but still only 200 out of 1,300 eligible clubs vote to back this motion, then there's no chance of achieving meaningful change anywhere down the line...

And this Telegraph article I've just read backs this up:

English rugby will never change if members do not bother voting
Shocking turnout of just 54 per cent for vote on RFU chief’s future asks serious questions of those who claim to care about the sport
Ben Coles
Rugby Reporter
28 March 2025 12:11pm GMT

In the end, there was one shocking figure as the votes were read out regarding Bill Sweeney’s future, but it was not related to the numbers either supporting or looking to oust the chief executive of the Rugby Football Union. The eyebrow-raiser was the level of turnout for one of the most important RFU votes in the past 20 years.

To give the full context, there are more than 2,000 RFU member clubs who are then split into two categories – voting members (clubs or referee societies) and non-voting members (members of their constituent body, casual clubs, work teams and so on), leaving you with 1,300 eligible voters.

Out of those 1,300 there were 672 votes cast during Thursday’s special general meeting for the motion of no confidence in Sweeney, with a further 36 abstaining. Which means a shade over half of those eligible voters participated. This was supposed to be a pivotal moment, the chance for those aggrieved by the management of English rugby at grass-roots level – well, all levels – to force change at the top after years of frustration.

And only about 54 per cent participated? That’s it?

Quite remarkably, the turnout is also understood to be the highest for this kind of event in the past 20 years.

Even if you park the Sweeney motion for a moment, the second motion to expedite the process of the Governance and Representation Review, leading to a greater say for clubs at a local level among other proposals from the recent RFU roadshow events, should surely have generated some enthusiasm, even if you took a cynical view and felt it was merely designed to be a distraction from Sweeney’s future and to prove the RFU were willing to change. Yet even then there were fewer than 700 votes cast.

Sir Bill Beaumont, the RFU’s interim chair, lauded afterwards that members had “voted emphatically to support our CEO”, which works when you look at the actual votes on the night – not that 200-plus votes against you is necessarily a good outcome – but less so when you consider how many potential voters did not participate. So, why didn’t they?

One reason, and this is being generous, could have been access. Tim Cunis, part of Old Pauline Football Club in Thames Ditton, noted while votes were being cast that it had been “hugely difficult” if you were not an honorary secretary of a club to get permission to attend the SGM. He also described the software to vote, for those representatives who had been appointed and who were not honorary secretaries, as not being “user friendly”, boldly comparing it to Horizon from the Post Office scandal. No one else raised these concerns, so they should be taken with a pinch of salt.

There are two other explanations. One is that the members who did not vote simply felt that there was no issue whatsoever with the RFU and Sweeney and how the game is being run, be it whether their concerns were being heard or the size of Sweeney’s salary. Maintain the status quo. And while that sentiment is fine, you would still hope they would at least exercise their right to vote by honouring the process and voting to keep Sweeney in place.

Instead, what if the rage which appeared to be simmering away in November and December when the LTIP scheme – a plan designed to keep high-level employees at companies – came to everyone’s attention, and led to the resignation of the previous RFU chair Tom Ilube, has simply given way to another emotion. Apathy.

Sure, attending the SGM in person comes with its own logistical issues. But to not even vote remotely, to participate with a couple of clicks, in a special general meeting? That lack of action in many ways sends a bigger message than abstaining or voting against Sweeney. It suggests exasperation with the entire process.

Perhaps those who opted not to take part wondered why bother to try to create change when the wait for action has been so long and the prospect of it seems so unlikely. Despite those ‘rebels’ who led the charge against Sweeney – Paddy McAlpine, Alistair Bow – leaving Allianz Stadium on Thursday evening with an apparent sense of optimism that real change was potentially on the way and their message had been heard.

Be frustrated, be disillusioned, absolutely. But to then complain down the road about a lack of action or reform or a broken system, of grass-roots clubs not feeling supported – having passed over the chance to create change within the RFU – would feel enormously hypocritical. If almost half of the eligible voters opt to abstain, then how can change happen?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nat1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2025 at 19:59
Very well said, completely agree. No individual and no club has a right to complain about Sweeney and the RFU if they themselves were in a position to make their feelings clear, and didn't, whether through apathy or not. It's akin to those who don't vote in political elections, but then moan about the lot who do get into power.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote One For The Ditch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2025 at 21:54
Originally posted by Nat1 Nat1 wrote:

Very well said, completely agree. No individual and no club has a right to complain about Sweeney and the RFU if they themselves were in a position to make their feelings clear, and didn't, whether through apathy or not. It's akin to those who don't vote in political elections, but then moan about the lot who do get into power.

Absolutely agree. But, the RFU must respect those clubs that did vote and not use apathy as an excuse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SK 88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2025 at 12:59
Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

Has anyone seen a figure for how much the RFU spends on Council members (and spouses)  - travel, subsistence, dinners and hospitality around England games etc. ?

I haven't updated my spreadsheet for the most recent report but it was £1m in 2021/22 year, down from £1.3m in a roughly equivalent year in 2017/18.

It peaked during the home RWC (which one might reasonably expect) at £1.6m in 2015/16 (which does seem high even given what you'd expect).

When my figures start in 2011 it was £600k.

So really quite a lot, varies by a decent amount and even the lower figures seem hard to justify; against that in the scale of the organisation it is roughly 0.5% of spending. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neasham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2025 at 09:01
Much appreciated. The number of dinners council
members  and their spouses attend around a Six Nations home game seem excessive (three nights in a row from what I gather) but given those figures there are possibly other troughs which need dealing with first.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2025 at 09:37
Sadly the lack of interest shown by the clubs not othering to vote will be seen as a licence to print dinner vouchers, nothing will change for the better now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2025 at 21:32
did anyone read Brian Moore in the Telegraph yesterday?

This is just the headline and final paragraph:

Brian Moore
My message to the RFU rebels: shut the f--- up
Bill Sweeney’s enemies are apparently not for giving up, but they will succeed only in damaging the grass-roots game they profess to defend


As we are in demand mode, I have one of my own – answer, in full, the reasonable questions about Championship funding and overall RFU governance, explaining in detail what you want to achieve and how you propose to do it, or do us all a favour and shut the f--- up!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JZSmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2025 at 12:15
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

did anyone read Brian Moore in the Telegraph yesterday?

This is just the headline and final paragraph:

Brian Moore
My message to the RFU rebels: shut the f--- up
Bill Sweeney’s enemies are apparently not for giving up, but they will succeed only in damaging the grass-roots game they profess to defend


As we are in demand mode, I have one of my own – answer, in full, the reasonable questions about Championship funding and overall RFU governance, explaining in detail what you want to achieve and how you propose to do it, or do us all a favour and shut the f--- up!

Yesterday was April Fool's Day. That can be the only reason for Brian Moore to fail to recognise the damage to the grassroots game the RFU have done in recent times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2025 at 21:33
When was Brian Moore last interested in the community game? No money in it (for him).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2025 at 10:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2025 at 10:47
Originally posted by Steve@Mose Steve@Mose wrote:

No confidence vote not an easy time - Sweeney

Awww....poor widdle Billy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 hours 32 minutes ago at 19:22

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An independent review has called for the of the Rugby Football Union Council, whose 63 members include representatives from England's counties, the military and Oxbridge, to be abolished.

The Council, whose members work on a voluntary basis, but receive expenses, free tickets and hospitality, oversee the RFU's board.

It has responsibility for regulations governing the game, giving it a potentially decisive say on issues such as how the Premiership and top-flight clubs operate.

Under proposed changes the Council could be disbanded entirely or replaced with a smaller group of appointed advisors.

"I've no doubt this will rankle with a number of existing Council members," said Ed Warner, one of the authors of the review.

"But I am hopeful that the logic of this streamlined structure, empowering those within community rugby, will win the hearts and minds of the majority."

Warner added the RFU's current structure was "clearly unfit for the modern era".

The Council also included advocates for referees, players, the Premiership, the Championship and the National League.

"It represents some very significant changes in terms of how we need to be structured to govern the game," RFU chief executive Bill Sweeney said on Monday of the as-then-unpublished review

The review highlighted a complex and slow decision-making process, poor communication and unwieldy bureaucracy taking up time of grassroots volunteers.

Sweeney, who survived a rebel coup to remove him from his post in March, has backed more control of the community game being devolved to local levels.

After a consultation period that runs to the end of June, final recommendations will be made to the Council in autumn when it could rubberstamp its own demise, with members' privileges and perks potentially being phased out over time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 hours 2 minutes ago at 19:52
Sweeney Delenda Est
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JZSmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 36 minutes ago at 12:18
So the review has spent the last year concluding that the game is run by incompetent clowns who rely on volunteers to do the jobs they should be doing. 

And the incompetent clowns will be left in place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 17 minutes ago at 12:37
Daily Bellylaff:


In move to modernise English rugby, RFU has poked the bear

Game is still hurting and revelation of radical proposals to overhaul organisation’s governance means hopes of permanent peace remain faint


Gavin MairsChief Rugby Union Correspondent


Nothing, it seems, is certain except death, taxes, and an RFU revolt.

The guns may still be only cooling from the last confrontation, the special general meeting held at the end of March with the aim of forcing out the governing body’s chief executive, Bill Sweeney.

Sweeney prevailed, yet it seems that hopes of a permanent peace remain faint, judging by the reaction to the Rugby Football Union’s revelation on Wednesday of radical proposals to overhaul the organisation’s governance, including axing of its 63-strong council.

The RFU was quick to insist that the review had been led by an independent group set up by the council, and the board and executive, including Sweeney, had not been involved “apart from being part of general consultation so far in some cases”.

It is also true that the “Governance and Representation Review” was not a result of the SGM but had been ongoing since September 2023.

Yet the perception of a land grab to dismantle the body that has harboured fierce critics of both Sweeney and the board – a revolt before Christmas culminated in the resignation of former chairman Tom Ilube over the bonus scandal – did not take long to take root.

The fact that the RFU only released the papers to the council via a Zoom call at noon was interpreted as an indication of the lack of trust and an alarming sign of dysfunctionality between the executive and the council.

“These proposals are a blatant attempt to reduce the influence of members and scrutiny of the board and executive,” said one source. “It is like the government trying to abolish parliament.”

Within hours, the Whole Game Union, the organisation representing around 250 clubs that led the call for the SGM in March, had been sparked back to life, issuing a statement that while the role and composition of the council was “sorely in need of reform ... the proposals would reduce the scrutiny of the Board and executive, two bodies that have brought the RFU to its knees”.

The phoney peace looks to be over, at least for another few months until the RFU’s annual general meeting on June 30.

A counter proposal to the RFU’s plan, which has been signed by Chichester RFC and Nottingham RFC, has already been lodged and calls for 11 rule changes to make council members more accountable but also calling for key decisions, such as the RFU’s strategic plan, to be approved by the council, not just the board.

“The objective is to ensure that members regain a meaningful role in shaping the union’s strategic direction and provides a platform that enables the RFU to be restructured into a well-led, well-governed, and high-performing National Governing Body (NGB) that serves the needs of all its members,” the letter states.

The RFU proposal in contrast wants to replace the council with “a smaller national advisory group” or replacing those members with game representatives who would be embedded within all the decision-making bodies, “including in suggested regional growth boards”. It has now begun a nationwide consultation “seeking views from across the rugby community”.

Proposals also include “accelerating ideas to develop a genuinely devolved regional system so those in the game can feel closer to and can influence the decisions which impact them directly”.

Emboldened by the feedback from the roadshows held in the run-up to the SGM, and by winning a second vote promising a governance review, including devolution of powers to the regions, by an 80 per cent majority, the RFU clearly see this as a moment to press ahead with a new structure. But the concern is that by being too radical, it has merely poked the bear.

The WGU, in reaction to the vote at the SGM, said that it would hold off calling another one only if the RFU delivered reform.

With two governance proposals now set to go to a vote of the clubs in June, the concern for the RFU is that it will not meet the 66 per cent threshold needed for its proposal to be accepted.

And that is before the issue is addressed of council members voting like turkeys for Christmas.

Those with long memories will know that we have been here before, several times. The last major revolt at the top of the RFU in 2011 resulted in a review, carried out by Slaughter and May, that proposed reducing the council to just 25 members. That even had the support of the then sports minister, Hugh Robertson, but was ultimately kicked into the long grass.

The hope must be that a way forward can be settled upon, for what is certain is that the status quo cannot remain, something at least the two parties agree on.

The game is still hurting from the traumatic months that followed the disclosure of the RFU’s annual report last November revealing the extent of the largesse of salaries and bonuses. It cannot afford another public squabble.

What is also clear is that those who see the dismantling of the council as a move that will strengthen Sweeney’s hand are misplaced. The wounds from the last battle revolt are still too fresh



Edited by Kimbo - 3 hours 15 minutes ago at 12:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 3 minutes ago at 12:51
........................and Turkeys voting for Christmas....................................no danger of that happening.....................pass the Gin bottle old chap.
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