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Lions Tour
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Pappashanga View Drop Down
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Points: 2167 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 16:12
It was a good match. As for the put ins, they weren’t any different to what you see week in week out in the Championship. I disagree with it. I also think it’s ridiculous that scrums are used to win penalties.
The match was close, yet some are talking about it as if it was some sort of disaster. 
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Points: 4724 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 19:36
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

It was a good match. As for the put ins, they weren’t any different to what you see week in week out in the Championship. I disagree with it. I also think it’s ridiculous that scrums are used to win penalties.
The match was close, yet some are talking about it as if it was some sort of disaster. 
Great post mate. I thought it was a gripping contest and either side could have taken it in the end. The SA game management and coaching team got the best out of their squad but I don't think you can reach the same conclusion for the Lions. Its interesting to do a man for man comparison between the two teams including the bench. Worth a different thread I think.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Points: 4309 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 07:50
I found the third match disappointing. The Lions had to break the SA stranglehold created in the second half of the 2nd test. The entry of Finn Russell so early nearly achieved that and showed that when teams are largely cancelling each other out a maverick can find space and time. One pass from Williams to Adams could have been the series winner but instead it was SA’s maverick Kolbe that did it.

I don’t think it did rugby any favours as entertainment and all 3 matches were for the purist. Whether it has damaged the Lions brand remains to be seen and, as Jason Leonard has already said, in 2025 we need to sort out the timing of player release so that Premiership Rugby don’t ruin the preparations as they did this year.
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Points: 1456 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 12:26
Originally posted by Full Bodied Red Full Bodied Red wrote:

Which authority decided and when, that the feed into the scrum could be put in at 45 degrees without censure? .....

Not sure I've only been watching rugby for fifty years so don't go back that far.
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Points: 2167 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 12:35
When I was playing in the sixties ‘not in straight’ was an offence.
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Halliford View Drop Down
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Points: 4309 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 13:34
It's to help player safety. Putting the ball in the second row means the hooker doesn't have to take one foot off the ground so he stays in a safer position. It also reduces the skillset needed to play hooker. 
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Points: 12002 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 13:35
It still is. You are allowed to be not central, but the feed must be straight.

19.15 Throw must be
f: Straight. The scrum-half may align their shoulder on the middle line of the scrum, thereby standing a shoulder-width closer to their side of the scrum.
Sanction: Free Kick.

There is also a diagram showing the scrum half standing parallel to the goal line.

Intentional offending is always a penalty.

9.7 A player must not:
a.  Intentionally infringe any law of the game.
Sanction Penalty.



Edited by Camquin - 09 Aug 2021 at 13:41
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Points: 4536 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 15:53
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

I found the third match disappointing. The Lions had to break the SA stranglehold created in the second half of the 2nd test. The entry of Finn Russell so early nearly achieved that and showed that when teams are largely cancelling each other out a maverick can find space and time. One pass from Williams to Adams could have been the series winner but instead it was SA’s maverick Kolbe that did it.

I don’t think it did rugby any favours as entertainment and all 3 matches were for the purist. Whether it has damaged the Lions brand remains to be seen and, as Jason Leonard has already said, in 2025 we need to sort out the timing of player release so that Premiership Rugby don’t ruin the preparations as they did this year.


Lions, know the score - they should arrange their tours accordingly.
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Robb View Drop Down
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Points: 1676 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 20:45
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

I found the third match disappointing. The Lions had to break the SA stranglehold created in the second half of the 2nd test. The entry of Finn Russell so early nearly achieved that and showed that when teams are largely cancelling each other out a maverick can find space and time. One pass from Williams to Adams could have been the series winner but instead it was SA’s maverick Kolbe that did it.

I don’t think it did rugby any favours as entertainment and all 3 matches were for the purist. Whether it has damaged the Lions brand remains to be seen and, as Jason Leonard has already said, in 2025 we need to sort out the timing of player release so that Premiership Rugby don’t ruin the preparations as they did this year.


Lions, know the score - they should arrange their tours accordingly.

They arranged the Lions tour dates before the Premiership announced their dates for this season. The Prem should work around the Lions not the other way around.
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islander View Drop Down
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Points: 7870 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 21:44
With reference to the previous two posts, I'm afraid they are somewhat naive. It would be great if the Lions could call the shots every fourth year, but in reality they are scrapping to retain a slot in the oh-so-crowded rugby calendar, selecting players who have contracts with primary employers (mainly English clubs + Celtic unions) who don't want them to go off with other teams (in spite of the overall benefits to the profile of rugby through a Lions tour).

Simon Thomas, one of the leading Welsh journalists, said today he feared the Lions tour could shrink further to a test series with a couple of warm-up games - this situation brought about by a) the situation described above and b) the largely processional nature of most non-test games in recent tours. Would-be Lions may end up competing for test selection during the closing weeks of the domestic season rather than running up 50-0 wins in semi-competitive warm-up matches against poor quality oppo.

I hope people won't shoot the messenger - I am outlining what I fear will happen, rather than what I would like to see.
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Points: 2234 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 09:26
Watched highlights of All Blacks v Australia.  33-25. 8 tries 6 scored by backs
It  will be interesting to see how they play against Springboks in September


Edited by tulip - 10 Aug 2021 at 09:26
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corporalcarrot View Drop Down
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Points: 4724 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 11:02
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

With reference to the previous two posts, I'm afraid they are somewhat naive. It would be great if the Lions could call the shots every fourth year, but in reality they are scrapping to retain a slot in the oh-so-crowded rugby calendar, selecting players who have contracts with primary employers (mainly English clubs + Celtic unions) who don't want them to go off with other teams (in spite of the overall benefits to the profile of rugby through a Lions tour).

Simon Thomas, one of the leading Welsh journalists, said today he feared the Lions tour could shrink further to a test series with a couple of warm-up games - this situation brought about by a) the situation described above and b) the largely processional nature of most non-test games in recent tours. Would-be Lions may end up competing for test selection during the closing weeks of the domestic season rather than running up 50-0 wins in semi-competitive warm-up matches against poor quality oppo.

I hope people won't shoot the messenger - I am outlining what I fear will happen, rather than what I would like to see.
If it evolves in the way suggested presumably it would lead to a numerically smaller touring party and avoid the historic split between the "midweek" and "test" groups. It may be commercially better and more competitive to have warm-up matches against South Sea Island opposition, Argentina or even France.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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islander View Drop Down
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Points: 7870 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 13:50
Japan and North America have also been mentioned. There is no current agreement that stipulates Australia 2025, 2037 etc, NZ in '29 and '41, SA in '33, so there's scope to mix it up. The lack of midweek warm-up matches (which used to be called tour matches of course) might be covered by women's tests, with the Lions now looking at that as an option...
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Points: 4536 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 17:47
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Japan and North America have also been mentioned. There is no current agreement that stipulates Australia 2025, 2037 etc, NZ in '29 and '41, SA in '33, so there's scope to mix it up. The lack of midweek warm-up matches (which used to be called tour matches of course) might be covered by women's tests, with the Lions now looking at that as an option...<div id="ypm-extension" ="ypm-extension">


Can you explain how a midweek women's test will act as a warm up for the Men's Lions test team?

It may fill a hole in the tv broadcaster's schedule, but that is another thing entirely.

It seems that Rugby tours are following the same path as Cricket tours, whereby the host country fails to provide any meaningful opposition. Is this so the visiting side are underprepared?

(England will play warm-up matches between themselves prior to the Ashes tests this coming winter)
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Points: 7870 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 19:32
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Japan and North America have also been mentioned. There is no current agreement that stipulates Australia 2025, 2037 etc, NZ in '29 and '41, SA in '33, so there's scope to mix it up. The lack of midweek warm-up matches (which used to be called tour matches of course) might be covered by women's tests, with the Lions now looking at that as an option...<div id="ypm-extension" ="ypm-extension">


Can you explain how a midweek women's test will act as a warm up for the Men's Lions test team?
No, can't explain, because they won't act as a warm-up. The men would have a couple of warm-up games for a squad of 28-30ish

It may fill a hole in the tv broadcaster's schedule, but that is another thing entirely. That's what I meant

It seems that Rugby tours are following the same path as Cricket tours, whereby the host country fails to provide any meaningful opposition. Is this so the visiting side are underprepared? Yes, there is definite trend in that direction. You'd think the host union would want competitive warm-up games in order to maximise TV revenue and ticket sales, rather than reduce them to meaningless affairs which would turn off broadcasters, TV viewers and spectators...

(England will play warm-up matches between themselves prior to the Ashes tests this coming winter)

Some answers above

Once again, please don't think I'm saying that this is what I want to happen; it's what I fear will happen, further relegating the overall standing of the Lions and defacing their fine 130-year history

Some very good insight and forthright views on these and other areas in the final edition of The Ruck, which I've found to be one of the best rugby podcasts:

https://play.acast.com/s/theruck/thankyouandgoodnight..-
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