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So, 2023/24 fixtures?
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corporalcarrot View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 May 2023 at 13:58
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Classic off-season RM fayre... one poster lobs in a grenade, without evidence, such as 'no Champ teams will be at home to Prem oppo in Prem/Champ Cup'... & others line up to criticise that state of affairs, even tho' it's only speculation, and may well turn out to be wrong.

Given the various demonstrations of elasticity we have encountered from the game's governing bodies, having 2 sets of regulations/ minimum standards, 1 for the (top-flight) league and 1 for the (tiers 1/2) cup, doesn't seem especially impausible/outrageous...
Well put mate. As I suspect I had some part in starting this particular hare running I accept the rebuke. You & Mark Smith are nearer the action & much better informed.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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islander View Drop Down
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Points: 7385 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 13:41
Classic off-season RM fayre... one poster lobs in a grenade, without evidence, such as 'no Champ teams will be at home to Prem oppo in Prem/Champ Cup'... & others line up to criticise that state of affairs, even tho' it's only speculation, and may well turn out to be wrong.

Given the various demonstrations of elasticity we have encountered from the game's governing bodies, having 2 sets of regulations/ minimum standards, 1 for the (top-flight) league and 1 for the (tiers 1/2) cup, doesn't seem especially implausible/outrageous...


Edited by islander - 26 May 2023 at 17:07
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Mark Smith View Drop Down
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Points: 2364 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 12:35
"Only a logical assumption as championship grounds do not conform to Premiership standards"

Prem Cup games have been played at out-grounds in previous seasons anyway - I believe Sarries have played a 'home' game at Bedford, for example.
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Points: 4434 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 11:48
Originally posted by Mark Smith Mark Smith wrote:

I'm not aware of any suggestion that all the cup games would allbe played at Prem grounds.

My understanding is Champ clubs would also have 'home' games.


Only a logical assumption as championship grounds do not conform to Premiership standards
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Mark Smith View Drop Down
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Points: 2364 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 11:46
I'm not aware of any suggestion that all the cup games would all be played at Prem grounds.

My understanding is Champ clubs would also have 'home' games.


Edited by Mark Smith - 26 May 2023 at 14:28
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Points: 2979 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 11:20
Yes that has been confirmed- there is a seeding of sorts that was mentioned- I cannot find the article but will look when more time is available 
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Sort that out RFU

Has there been confirmation that the new Cup will have a mix of both Championship and Premiership clubs in the initial pools? 


Edited by FHLH - 26 May 2023 at 10:51
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Points: 4434 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 09:36
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

No championship club has seen the Premiership Cup fixtures, so we are all working from the same rumours and some basic knowledge of how a round-robin has to work.
As the Premiership Cup fixtures at pool stage are single legs rather than home and away it seems likely that all games between Premiership and Championship clubs will routinely be held at the home ground of the Premiership club which will be compliant with required standards. Premiership clubs may end up with 4 home fixtures and a single away game at another Premiership club whilst the opposite could be the case for Championship clubs. 


Don't believe that assumption is correct CC... & wouldn't expect the same minimum criteria to be in place for Prem/Champ Cup as for Prem league fixtures.


Premiership sides playing all games against Championship sides at home would be totally unfair:-

1) no or little income for the Championship teams
2) lots of expenses for the Championship teams

In the spirit of fair competition the Premiership sides should play all games against the championship sides - however this causes a conundrum whereby it would be OK for Premiership teams to play at non-compliant Championship grounds in the Cup but not in the league

Sort that out RFU
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islander View Drop Down
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Points: 7385 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 16:47
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

No championship club has seen the Premiership Cup fixtures, so we are all working from the same rumours and some basic knowledge of how a round-robin has to work.
As the Premiership Cup fixtures at pool stage are single legs rather than home and away it seems likely that all games between Premiership and Championship clubs will routinely be held at the home ground of the Premiership club which will be compliant with required standards. Premiership clubs may end up with 4 home fixtures and a single away game at another Premiership club whilst the opposite could be the case for Championship clubs. 

Don't believe that assumption is correct CC... & wouldn't expect the same minimum criteria to be in place for Prem/Champ Cup as for Prem league fixtures.
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tigerburnie View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Halliford, in 2003/4 Cambridge were a London 2 North - level 6 club.
I think my son played a few games for them around that time when based at a nearby barracks.
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corporalcarrot View Drop Down
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Points: 4724 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 16:02
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

No championship club has seen the Premiership Cup fixtures, so we are all working from the same rumours and some basic knowledge of how a round-robin has to work.
As the Premiership Cup fixtures at pool stage are single legs rather than home and away it seems likely that all games between Premiership and Championship clubs will routinely be held at the home ground of the Premiership club which will be compliant with required standards. Premiership clubs may end up with 4 home fixtures and a single away game at another Premiership club whilst the opposite could be the case for Championship clubs. 


Edited by corporalcarrot - 25 May 2023 at 16:10
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Halliford, in 2003/4 Cambridge were a London 2 North - level 6 club.
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11158 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 15:34
Yes, I am already thinking of 22/23 as last season, so 23/24 is this season.
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Ten teams for the Prem 2(read Championship) is not until 24/25 season is it not?
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Halliford View Drop Down
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Points: 4156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 15:16
How times change! One of my friends has shared an Esher programme from 2003/4 when we were in National 2 (now National 1). On 20th September Esher beat Cambridge 85-0 in the Powergen Cup. That's serious nostalgia!
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From what I was told yesterday at the Cambridge SGM.

No championship club has seen the Premiership Cup fixtures, so we are all working from the same rumours and some basic knowledge of how a round-robin has to work.

Championship fixtures are due out in mid-June, but we do not have a draft yet.

Everyone assumes we are going to a ten team Championship next season. So we expect two or three teams, to permit promotion, to be relegated. But there is no formal plan. 

People are assuming that London Irish are toast, so no relegation from the premiership next season - unless a miracle happens, and they permit one of us to be promoted.

There is no certainty on funding for this year, let alone next.

Cambridge have made some signings, but are not going to start making announcements until our DoR is back from his vacation. Then we will do a phased release of information to build excitement.

Cambridge will run a 2nd XV in a new Herts Merit League, as well as the 3rds in Eastern Counties.
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Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

So a lot like the restrictions the PRL impose on Championship sides to maintain the cartel then? Nothing to do with who wins or loses, just if your face fits, rugby really does seem to be rotten to the core doesn't it?

Absolutely nothing like the restrictions imposed by PRL on the Championship! Just trying to ensure that Clubs at semi-professional level provide the right facilities for players and spectators. Shame you can't see beyond the negative!
No doubt the PRL will say exactly the same thing about their rules.

Football applies minimum standards down to the very lowest levels of the pyramid. Do you think that sport is also nothing to do with who wins and loses but just if your face fits and so is rotten to the core?

Or could it just be you have massively overreacted?
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Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

It seems obvious the way things are going that clubs like Richmond will come into their own as others, who spend their money on transient players instead of their asset,  implode.

To a certain extent Richmond have the benefit of a 10 million + catchment area, many of whom have been to schools where rugby is played. Again, many will be in full time employment and play for pleasure not necessarily personal advancement; hence no need for a large player cost base. There is also a cachet playing for long established London clubs. 

Cambridge played a pre-season match in September 1971 and received a hefty trouncing. I seem to remember being run through by Chris Ralston!




Edited by FHLH - 19 May 2023 at 18:05
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It seems obvious the way things are going that clubs like Richmond will come into their own as others, who spend their money on transient players instead of their asset,  implode.
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Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

So a lot like the restrictions the PRL impose on Championship sides to maintain the cartel then? Nothing to do with who wins or loses, just if your face fits, rugby really does seem to be rotten to the core doesn't it?

Absolutely nothing like the restrictions imposed by PRL on the Championship! Just trying to ensure that Clubs at semi-professional level provide the right facilities for players and spectators. Shame you can't see beyond the negative!
No doubt the PRL will say exactly the same thing about their rules.
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