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national 2 south status
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 12017 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2022 at 23:34
As a national 1 fan, I can tell you that the promoted sides never, ever, prosper.
Rams struggled to second last season, and I am sure we will not see Caldy after this one.

Dorking have been in National 2 before. They finished fourth in 14/15.
North Walsham dropped out of what was then national 3 in 2008, but only just missed promotion in 2006, losing 5-15 to Nuneaton in the play-off, the year Cambridge were first promoted.

I watched Walsham II play Cambridge Exiles last week. Exiles had Stef Liebenburg and Brendan Burke as the half-back pairing., for those that remember them No quarter asked nor given, just hard rugby. While Cambridge won, and will top the league, it is clear that NW2 are too good for Easter Counties rugby. SO both should go up.

 
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Raider999 View Drop Down
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Points: 4536 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2022 at 20:10
Having researched a bit it appears Tom Stileman is a winger who made is London Scottish debut in November 21, he has played for Oxford University in the past.
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He had an outstanding game when he came to The Haberden, seemed to recall him scoring one and making two (or vice versa)...
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Wigwam View Drop Down
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Points: 1191 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wigwam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2022 at 13:43
I believe Westcliffe put out two senior sides last week, but cited unavailability of front row players for todays game at Worthing. That is a load of injured / unavailable players, maybe 10 + ??? Terrible bad luck to all come at once !!!! 
I understand Worthing offered replacements to them during the week to ensure the game went ahead, but this service was declined. 
To the cynical it appears to be a case of cannot be bothered to travel on a bank holiday weekend and looking for an excuse not to do so. 
With no fear of relegation and any deduction in points meaningless this season, or indeed next for that matter, it seems the easy way out. 
I hope I am wrong, but I suspect this scenario will become fairly standard next season in the new structure across all the leagues at this level. 
Who can blame Esher for pushing to get out of this mess no matter the cost. 
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Points: 1835 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2022 at 14:38
You mean out of this mess into the bigger mess of the Championship? 
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Darth Raider View Drop Down
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I may have a bit more to say about the games today at a later point, but for the moment, would appreciate some help in understanding the repercussions of Westcliff not turning up today.

Perhaps one of the more seasoned posters on here has some relevant experience that they can pass on. For now, it seems to me that in terms of points.......the game will be recorded as 0-0......with an adjustment only being made by the RFU if it is deemed to effect either promotion or relegation ?

Also......attempting to do a little research myself......here is an extract from RFU regulation 13.6.11 (b)

For the avoidance of doubt, lack of players or insufficient front row players with Effective Registration whether through injury, illness or because of work or other commitments shall not be deemed to be a justifiable reason for not playing or seeking a postponement of a League Match.  

 This was our last home match of the year and much needed revenue will have been lost.  I also wonder if our club will feel obligated to pay win bonuses to our players ?  
I have no idea what if any consequence will befall Westcliff.....but ethically, I think we should get a 40-0 win, 5 league points and financial compensation.  
I am pretty miffed I can tell you.....mostly because I did not get to see the game AngryAngry
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Points: 181 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Even Older Hooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2022 at 18:41
Spot on Darth. We even offered them players so the fixture could go ahead !! I suspect they have all gone to the beach in Clacton. I do not think they will be welcome next season. (If they can get a team together)
Another one against the head
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Points: 337 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweatysock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2022 at 18:48
well I turned up at Worthing not knowing game was off. Thought it was generous to allow free entry and the bar was less busy than usual. Only realised something was amiss at 10 to 3!

Message to self - always check game is on before setting off!!

But a real shame to miss opportunity to see the team in action for last time this season


Edited by sweatysock - 16 Apr 2022 at 18:50
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Scrumtime View Drop Down
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I may be wrong 

But I think nothing will come of it apart from Worthing getting 5 points 
Westcliff will get a -5

I’m pretty sure no money will change hands 


Edited by Scrumtime - 16 Apr 2022 at 20:10
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Wigwam View Drop Down
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Points: 1191 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wigwam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2022 at 18:50
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

You mean out of this mess into the bigger mess of the Championship? 

Esher will be promoted to national one 
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Darth Raider View Drop Down
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Points: 1775 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2022 at 20:22
I dunno....where are Camquin and Halliford when you need them Wink

Scrumtime......I suspect that in these forfeited games, that the winning side does not get an TBP....but I don't know that for a fact.
It troubles me more from an 'level playing field' aspect.  Had my lot not fallen away at the end as they have.....this result may well have had a bearing on promotion this year.....if only on a 'points difference' perspective.
All other title contenders will have had the opportunity to play (perhaps) the weakest side in the league....at home.....and we are denied that opportunity.

I don't know what the laws are around this situation but I sincerely hope that they are set in place to protect the team that CAN play on the day.  
In addition....I think that financial consequences should exist by way of compensation.  Grrr.....calming slightly but still very unhappy 
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Wigwam View Drop Down
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Points: 1191 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wigwam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2022 at 21:40
I predict you may be unhappy a few times next year Darth. The new structure will be littered with mis matches and no shows. 
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Halliford View Drop Down
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Points: 4309 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2022 at 21:59
Halliford was having a romantic supper having driven back from Canterbury! I don’t know the full facts but understood from a source at NLR that Worthing (and Rotherham) will be awarded a 5-0 win. Westcliff we’re still talking to Worthing at 8 pm on Friday, having originally cried off earlier on Friday. 
My personal view would be that a 5 point deduction be applied to Westcliff but that is an NLR Executive decision. It won’t have any effect this season, of course. 
I did ask whether teams could refuse promotion and was told, yes, every team can choose to refuse promotion. Perhaps Westcliff should have done that two years’ ago.
Canterbury were what I expected this afternoon, tenacious, competitive and hard-working. I don’t agree with their match commentator who said at the end that the win flattered us. Canterbury’s wings have been lethal in previous matches but couldn’t get free while the Esher pack dominated at scrum, ruck and line-out. 
Looking forward to next week’s clash with a rested Worthing team!
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Thatbloke View Drop Down
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Points: 1835 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2022 at 22:01
Sorry Wigwam my mistake
Oh and Halliford any 5 point deductions are supposed to be carried forward to next season as they will have no effect if applied now


Edited by Thatbloke - 16 Apr 2022 at 22:03
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Darth Raider View Drop Down
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Points: 1775 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2022 at 22:28
Thanks for that Halliford......hope you enjoyed your romantic meal.....was it with EOH ?  LOLWink

Don't envy you the trip to Merton Lane....always one of the worst for me.....a horrible drive.....guess your lads dealt with the slope pretty well ?  The home side usually use it very well.

The City Side wingers can be a problem.....Corcoran in particular.....but they have struggled this season.
Full back pretty good too as i recall ?

It will be interesting to see what Raiders side travels to Molesey Rd next week.  I hope it is a strong one.
Definitely your last big banana skin ? 
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Raider999 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by sweatysock sweatysock wrote:

well I turned up at Worthing not knowing game was off. Thought it was generous to allow free entry and the bar was less busy than usual. Only realised something was amiss at 10 to 3!

Message to self - always check game is on before setting off!!

But a real shame to miss opportunity to see the team in action for last time this season



I quite agree - found out around 11am from one of the other Crawley Raiders that game was off. I would have been seriously p****d off if I had travelled to watch a non-event.

I understand we offered them players to enable the game to go ahead (not sure how that works) but they declined. Failure to play should incur financial penalties as recompense for the revenue lost.

I would put money on Westcliff fielding a side next week in the HOME derby against Rochford - but then maybe I am being cynical, will just have to wait and see.
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Raider999 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

I dunno....where are Camquin and Halliford when you need them Wink

Scrumtime......I suspect that in these forfeited games, that the winning side does not get an TBP....but I don't know that for a fact.
It troubles me more from an 'level playing field' aspect.  Had my lot not fallen away at the end as they have.....this result may well have had a bearing on promotion this year.....if only on a 'points difference' perspective.
All other title contenders will have had the opportunity to play (perhaps) the weakest side in the league....at home.....and we are denied that opportunity.

I don't know what the laws are around this situation but I sincerely hope that they are set in place to protect the team that CAN play on the day.  
In addition....I think that financial consequences should exist by way of compensation.  Grrr.....calming slightly but still very unhappy 


Darth, I made the exact point this morning. I would have been surprised if the Raiders had not put at least 50 points on the full Westcliff team, let alone a weakened one.

Cancellation must have cost Worthing thousands in way of gate money, beer sales etc
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Raider999 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Wigwam Wigwam wrote:

I predict you may be unhappy a few times next year Darth. The new structure will be littered with mis matches and no shows. 


I understand the logic in your statement - I just hope you are being overly pessimistic.

Personally, I don't understand the need to change level 4 from the current set up which on the whole works very well and produces a competitive league.
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sweatysock View Drop Down
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Points: 337 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweatysock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2022 at 23:46
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Wigwam Wigwam wrote:

I predict you may be unhappy a few times next year Darth. The new structure will be littered with mis matches and no shows. 


I understand the logic in your statement - I just hope you are being overly pessimistic.

Personally, I don't understand the need to change level 4 from the current set up which on the whole works very well and produces a competitive league.

yep dont get need for change given things were working perfectly ok and gave us supporters great entertainment in a very competitive league. What problem were they trying to solve?
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Points: 181 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Even Older Hooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2022 at 07:04
Raider a very good point about them fielding a side next week !!!! They clearly have no respect for other clubs  and the effort they put into the "Match day" Experience. You would not get Redruth saying we can not get a team to go despite the incredible mileage they do . These are only a short trip round the M25.
Grrrrrrrr
Another one against the head
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