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Thatbloke View Drop Down
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Points: 1871 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2022 at 10:20
Also interesting and maybe helps identifying the clubs involved
Both Sevenoaks AND North Walsham (1st and 3rd) are CASC registered
But I have no knowledge one way or the other to suggest any infringements by either club, either or both may be fully compliant
You can also add Havant to the list
And Tring
Those are the only 4 clubs registered as CASC in that league. The prime reason of withdrawing from CASC and foregoing the associated benefits is so that you can legitimately pay players. You can draw your own conclusions from that


Edited by Thatbloke - 19 Apr 2022 at 10:37
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FEZ ANT PLUCKER View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

A great deal of conjecture here......and nobody seems to have presented any actual facts.
I don't normally involve myself in this sort of debate.....but will recount some (perhaps dodgy) memories from when the boys from the Big Field were last in our league.

There were a few Dorking posters who made a big issue of the fact that they were the only fully amateur club in our league.  No match fees paid.
Contrarian posters claimed that this was wholly untrue in that Dorking employed and paid many of their leading players as 'coaches' for many of their lesser sides and in so doing....avoided paying match fees.

Pure conjecture and I have no idea of the truth of these matters or indeed, whether such practices might fall within the Laws regardless.  Sevenoaks just up the road though ?  Maybe doing the same thing ?

Just some thoughts and hey Fez......good to hear from you again.

Hello again DR
Exactly. As you say lots of dodgy conjecture from perhaps loose tongues........but this round of baiting first raised its head in January? and the allegations were serious stuff and several posters got involved, for and against. I watched with interest and eventually the thread went quiet. Now the battle this year for promotion has been intense and involving 4 teams in the final weeks. Then suddenly a week before the final game of the season, the thread re-emerges apparently stemming from a comment in the matchday programme of a L4 team also based in Kent, and the thread re-appears in a different chatline.
My position is this. There should be an official announcement from the RFU this week clearing up the situation/ innuendo one way or the other. Is there any truth or basis to the original and continuing allegations? If the answer is Yes then is the RFU investigation/hearing complete and over and what are the findings. If the answer is No, then the clubs concerned should be informed.

I say clubs because four LSEPrem clubs will be going into this final weekend with a hope of promotion and as it stands at the moment at the conclusion of saturdays games they will be none the wiser as to their respective futures, and unable to celebrate or drown in their disappointment.


     
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WESTCOMBE RANGER View Drop Down
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Points: 2299 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WESTCOMBE RANGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2022 at 13:13
Fez Ant, for the avoidance of any doubt, the article in the matchday programme started by stating that decisions on the make-up of N2S were still awaited, but went on to add that an intriguing plot had emerged etc.etc. 
My apologies for giving any wrong impression and maybe I did Canterbury a dis-service. 
As this thread was all about Nat 2S status and in particular who is going up/down/sideways/which way, it seemed the appropriate place for my post.
Like you I do like to see what's going on away from just my club's league. 
The older I get, the better I was.
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Halliford View Drop Down
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I'm not sure the RFU has to comment unless they have opened a formal investigation and I'm not sure they have. Initially I expect it would be the LSE DOC that would look at Level 5. 

The CASC model can work if you are careful but I doubt the model will work for Clubs seeking to establish themselves at Level 4 given the RFU assumption that Clubs at that level are semi-professional. Within the CASC model Clubs are, of course, able to play players for other work within their Clubs - the restriction is on paying players to play. 

This all sounds like the rumour mill working overtime to me. Let's hope we can get to 1st May with some certainty for Levels 2 - 5!
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FEZ ANT PLUCKER View Drop Down
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Points: 1014 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FEZ ANT PLUCKER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2022 at 14:01
WR. You dont have to apologise to me or to Canterbury I imagine. The fact that the topic has 'travelled' is sufficient in itself to indicate that the original posts in January had substance, and are still alive and subjudice. Like you we all share an interest in the truth which seems so difficult to establish in a timely fashion these days. It is probably likely that the whole matter will unravel in mid July with some inconspicuous RFU website notificationUnhappy. 
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Any truth in the rumour that OE's are set to return next season in National 2 South? I hope its not true...
See you further on up the road
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Originally posted by FlyingRuck FlyingRuck wrote:

Any truth in the rumour that OE's are set to return next season in National 2 South? I hope its not true...


I cannot see any reason for that to happen - surely they start at the bottom (as other clubs have) if they want to restart at all.
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Halliford View Drop Down
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Originally posted by FlyingRuck FlyingRuck wrote:

Any truth in the rumour that OE's are set to return next season in National 2 South? I hope its not true...

Only in place of Blackheath if they fold after relegation.😉😂😂
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Where would they get a side from, their 1st and 2nd XVs have gone to the four winds and their 3rd XV could not step up - and I am not sure if they even completed the Kent merit league season.
They do have a mini and youth section  and will rebuild, but only as a community club.I believe they won awards from Kent R\fu for their community and youth coaching this season.
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Just a thought……ever heard of the phrase “innocent until proven guilty?”
I would suggest that we celebrate and applaud Sevenoaks and Dorking/North Walsham on a hard fought league. Some of the rugby played by these sides has been exceptionally good. Nat 2 is a different prospect altogether but as I see it, they deserve the opportunity to take it on. If the RFU are doing investigations then great, it’s important that we maintain standards, but please stop the nonsense chat. Let these clubs enjoy their moment. They deserve it.


Edited by Kentishman - 23 Apr 2022 at 07:04
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To be fair, the posts have been circulated primarily from people not regurlaly associated with N2South.   Good Luck and congratulations to all clubs that gain promotion!    Whether a club pays players, doesnt pay players, has 50 watching or 500, I couldnt careless, what concerns me most is the quality of the Rugby on display and I fear the decision to "water down" the leagues will jeopordise that!  History says that in recent times, most promoted teams (and they have usually come up having won their division at a canter) struggle in N2.  Good luck all 3 teams today, especially N Walsham as it would be great to have a "local" derby!
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Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Originally posted by FlyingRuck FlyingRuck wrote:

Any truth in the rumour that OE's are set to return next season in National 2 South? I hope its not true...

Only in place of Blackheath if they fold after relegation.😉😂😂

Are you speaking in an official capacity as a secretary of a National 1 club or do you know any facts ? 

I’d say neither 

Look very close at the RFU rules and regs!  
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I might have misremembered but didn't the RFU say that clubs could pull out of the leagues this season (Covid) and return next season to the same league? In any normal year you would start at the bottom of the pyramid.
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There have been draft versions of the structure at L4/5 (from official sources) circulating regularly in recent weeks - one iteration was posted on this board - and OEs do not feature at either level.

Edited by Mark W-J - 23 Apr 2022 at 11:07
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Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

There have been draft versions of the structure at L4/5 (from official sources) circulating regularly in recent weeks - one iteration was posted on this board - and OEs do not feature at either level.

As you say very much,  draft 
I think we will find the league competition committee 
Chaired by Mr Burwell meets on the 3rd and 4th of May 





Edited by Scrumtime - 23 Apr 2022 at 11:50
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Mark W-J View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Scrumtime Scrumtime wrote:

Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

There have been draft versions of the structure at L4/5 (from official sources) circulating regularly in recent weeks - one iteration was posted on this board - and OEs do not feature at either level.
As you say very much,  draft 
I think we will find the league competition committee 
Chaired by Mr Burwell meets on the 3rd and 4th of May 
Wouldn't it be funny if this was the one time your Nostradamus-like prophecies happened to come true? No, I'm not holding my breath, either...
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Originally posted by Golden Jackal Golden Jackal wrote:

To be fair, the posts have been circulated primarily from people not regurlaly associated with N2South.   Good Luck and congratulations to all clubs that gain promotion!    Whether a club pays players, doesnt pay players, has 50 watching or 500, I couldnt careless, what concerns me most is the quality of the Rugby on display and I fear the decision to "water down" the leagues will jeopordise that!  History says that in recent times, most promoted teams (and they have usually come up having won their division at a canter) struggle in N2.  Good luck all 3 teams today, especially N Walsham as it would be great to have a "local" derby!


Totally agree with this.
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Raider999 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by rugbychris rugbychris wrote:

I might have misremembered but didn't the RFU say that clubs could pull out of the leagues this season (Covid) and return next season to the same league? In any normal year you would start at the bottom of the pyramid.


Except, OE's did not pull out because of Covid - they pulled out because they had no money to pay their players and returning in the same league would be N1 not N2
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OEs if they want to get back to the higher levels, must do as all before them ie Richmond L Scottish, L Welsh, East Grinstead. Drop to the lowest level and work their way back up.
Another one against the head
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Originally posted by Golden Jackal Golden Jackal wrote:

To be fair, the posts have been circulated primarily from people not regurlaly associated with N2South.   Good Luck and congratulations to all clubs that gain promotion!    Whether a club pays players, doesnt pay players, has 50 watching or 500, I couldnt careless, what concerns me most is the quality of the Rugby on display and I fear the decision to "water down" the leagues will jeopordise that!  History says that in recent times, most promoted teams (and they have usually come up having won their division at a canter) struggle in N2.  Good luck all 3 teams today, especially N Walsham as it would be great to have a "local" derby!

I echo those sentiments. I would love to see North Walsham back, great memories playing them! Let’s hope Henley will be in the same league?!!
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