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The Blues 
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Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Status: Online Points: 5232 |
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 Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 19:27 |
Blues applied before to just see what they would come up with in the report, knowing that there was probably quite a bit they would be pulled up on.
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The Blues
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Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Status: Online Points: 5232 |
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Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 19:32 |
You could argue you are safer in a rugby ground, with no segregation and the crowd has never pelted players with missile or torn the stadium apart to throw seats at others etc!
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islander
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Joined: 17 Mar 2010 Location: jersey Status: Offline Points: 7954 |
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Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 20:14 |
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Interview with Jersey Reds Chairman on this topic...
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islander
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Joined: 17 Mar 2010 Location: jersey Status: Offline Points: 7954 |
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Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 20:30 |
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And two Telegraph articles, first one below. It's good to see this topic getting serious airtime in the national media...
COMMENT What is the point of the Championship if there is no pathway to England's top flight? There is frustration within the Championship of double-standards that clubs already in Premiership aren't subject to same rules, like Bath GAVIN MAIRS, CHIEF RUGBY UNION CORRESPONDENT 2 March 2022 • 2:15pm Stuck in the dark ages. That was the damning verdict of Joe Marler, the England prop. Commercial commitments ensure it is usually a rare occurrence for any professional rugby player to make a controversial remark on their social media account. But in doing so Marler, the Harlequins forward, who had himself benefited from loans spells at Esher and Worthing, captured the anger and frustration of a large section of the rugby community in England at the decision by the professional game board to reject the Premiership promotion applications by Ealing Trailfinders and Doncaster Knights. “Apparently they would rather not grow the game...” added Marler, whose tweet sparked a long list of comments from supporters critical of the decision as well as from many players in the Championship. It is an issue that is close to the heart of many Telegraph Sport readers. What is the point of the Championship if it is denuded of a pathway to the Premiership? An independent audit concluded both clubs had failed to meet the minimum standards criteria, which includes a stadium that must hold a minimum of 10,001 fans. The capacity at both clubs is currently around 5,000 and this year neither had proposed groundshare arrangements in their applications. On the face of it, the decision was straightforward. The MSC has been in place for 20 years and was reviewed again last year. Clubs like Exeter Chiefs had to endure the pain and financial commitment required on their promotion to the Premiership in 2010 to upgrade Sandy Park. London Welsh in 2012 had to scramble arrangements to groundshare with Oxford United at the Kassam Stadium when they shocked everyone by winning the play-off against Cornish Pirates, despite finishing 14 points behind Bristol at the top of the table. Yet these are far from normal times. It was only in June last year that the RFU council passed a Covid recovery plan, in which it made the historic decision to introduce a moratorium on relegation from the Premiership on the grounds that it would improve “the financial stability and sustainability of professional rugby” for the next three seasons. The temporary end to relegation was tempered by the commitment that the door would still be kept open for promotion from the Championship, to allow an expansion to 14 clubs for the start of next season. The result has been one of the most spell-binding Championship campaigns in years; a thrilling battle at the top of the table with three potential champions in Doncaster, Ealing and Cornish Pirates. Yet, in an instant, the announcement of the PGB decision, which has been ratified by the RFU board, has rendered it a meaningless competition and we are only just into March. It is stunning body blow to a competition that less than a week ago was bracing itself for a proposal to introduce Premiership A sides into the league, even though clubs are in the process of reducing the size of their squads because of financial constraints and many players who have experienced both expound the development benefits of playing for a Championship club. Both league leaders Doncaster and third-placed Ealing have the right to appeal, and they should do so. London Welsh fell foul of the minimum standards criteria decision in 2012 and had it overturned with their groundshare deal in Oxford. Both Ealing and Doncaster were confident that their plans to increase capacities and improve facilities would have been enough for the audit and questions arise as to why they should have to be in a position to make such a draining financial commitment so soon in the season? Championship insiders say the position has not been helped that if the promoted club wants to buy a ‘P share,’ its valuation could be potentially prohibitive, with some estimating the value at £20 million. Premiership Rugby insists no valuation has been put on it yet. The irony is that just as the Premiership wants expansion to erase the anomaly of a 13-club league and bring in extra revenue from home games, the PGB has made the financial gulf too large for clubs from the Championship to close at a time when the impact of the Covid pandemic has left all clubs with mounting debts. There is frustration amongst Championship clubs, too, at the perception of double-standards that clubs already in the Premiership are not subject to the same rules, such as Bath, whose temporary stand at the Rec is without a roof, something that sources say has led to an annual fine. "If Bath were relegated, would they be allowed to be promoted again on minimum standards criteria? It is a question that has never been answered," says one Championship insider. A Premiership spokesman said that as each club is independently audited each year, Bath would be promoted under MSC. It is understandable why some clubs should baulk at suggestions of allowing the promoted club from the Championship leeway that was not offered to them. But these are not normal times. The Premiership needs 14 clubs and despite the huge financial commitment required to play in the top flight, there are still two clubs in the Championship with the fire in their belly for the fight. Both clubs at present can accommodate crowds of 5,000. Doncaster currently have a safety certificate, so the 10,001 figure is effectively a subjective one, although the club would have been party to the MSC. Ealing do not and therefore there is no way their ground could be approved and must therefore seek a groundshare. Insiders say that both clubs were aware of the timescale, which had been brought forward to give certainty earlier in the process to avoid the situation of previous years where the process could drag on into the summer. No doubt the uncertainty of the Championship title race has played a part in this. We can but assume however that the decision to appeal is genuine and if the desire is there to go up, then they should be given more time to resolve the outstanding issues. There are many points to the Championship, not least as a brilliant conveyor belt for players who have gone on to represent England, benefiting from spells alongside former players in English rugby's second tier. Just as it suited the Premiership to ditch relegation for at least three season as part of the Covid recovery plan, surely there must be a way to accommodate clubs who have a genuine ambition to join them if they earn the right to do so on the pitch, regardless of the number of covered seats they have in their stands. |
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islander
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Joined: 17 Mar 2010 Location: jersey Status: Offline Points: 7954 |
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Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 20:31 |
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2nd Telegraph article (there's some overlap with the one above):
'Stuck in the dark ages': Joe Marler hits out after Ealing and Doncaster denied Premiership promotion Both teams had promotion applications rejected based on stadium capacity, with Doncaster Knights appealing the decision By Ben Coles, RUGBY REPORTER 2 March 2022 • 5:10pm England prop Joe Marler hit out at the decision to reject both Ealing Trailfinders and Doncaster Knights' promotion applications from the Championship, describing the Rugby Football Union and Premiership Rugby as "stuck in the dark ages still". Championship leaders Doncaster Knights, along with third-placed Ealing, had their applications turned down based on stadium capacity, with neither side able to host Premiership matches at stadia which meet the minimum standards criteria required by the RFU. Those standards include that a stadium must hold a minimum of 10,001 fans. Harlequins prop Marler, who has previously spent brief loan spells at Esher and Worthing, was in no doubt over the impression the verdict was giving out. Doncaster Knights have confirmed that they will appeal the rejected proposal based on the club's stadium, Castle Park, not meeting the minimum standards criteria. The club said in a statement that it was "disappointed, dismayed and disheartened" by the decision given that Castle Park has hosted Women's Six Nations and England Under-20 matches in the past. Doncaster, however, added that a "stand-by ground", presumably meeting the required criteria, was now available for the club to use during the 2022-23 season, should they win promotion. Telegraph Sport understands that Ealing will also apppeal the decision. The club's players were incensed after being informed of the decision after training on Tuesday, with many having signed contracts with the club seeking to win promotion to the Premiership. It is understood that neither Ealing nor Doncaster proposed ground-share agreements with larger stadiums in their applications, or have plans in place to expand their respective capacities. Both sides would now need to find stadiums with which meet the minimum standards criteria in order to be eligible for promotion. Both Doncaster and Ealing have applied to be eligible for promotion through ground-share agreements with alternative venues in the past, with Ealing proposing to play at Saracens' StoneX Stadium in 2021 and Doncaster in previous years at the 15,231-capacity Keepmoat Stadium used by Doncaster Rovers Football Club. Ealing Trailfinders do not currently have a licensed capacity, but the ground holds approximately 5,000, with 2,115 seats. Doncaster Knights currently have a capacity of around 5,183, with 1,926 seats. Including the Big Game played at Twickenham, the average attendance in the Premiership season as of Round 15 this season has been 11,900 fans per match. Championship players reacted with anger at the decision and openly criticised the RFU. Bedford Blues player Ollie Stedman tweeted: "What is the point in the league then? No promotion, no relegation… Just glorified friendlies and a tick box exercise for the RFU?" Guy Thompson, the former Wasps and Leicester back-row now at Jersey, added: "This is a really poor decision. Greedy owners that want to keep a monopoly on it. A team that wins a league deserves the opportunity to compete and grow. Such a predictable outcome by the @RFU!" Ampthill forward Charlie Beckett, the brother of England Women's international Sarah, added: "Both Trailfinders Sports Park and Castle Park are brilliant grounds/facilities. Them not holding 10000 being the reason neither team can win promotion is laughable in my opinion. Gutted for all the staff, players and fans of both sides, and for this brilliant league as a whole. "Also, it’s nice to see the RFU feel Trailfinders Sports Park was good enough to host the Premier15s final a number of years ago, and that Castle Park is good enough to host @EnglandRugby women’s internationals, but neither is good enough for men’s Premiership?" Should Ealing's appeal prove successful it would have echoes of London Welsh's promotion to the Premiership back in 2012, after their initial application was rejected due to not holding primacy of tenure at the 12,500-capacity Kassam Stadium in Oxford, despite the fact that other Premiership clubs at the time - London Irish, Saracens, Wasps and Sale - were playing without primacy of tenure at their respective grounds. Bill Sweeney, chief executive officer of the RFU, said: "The RFU and PRL would welcome a Championship club being promoted to create a 14-team Gallagher Premiership league. "In the past, clubs with home grounds which would not meet the Minimum Standards Criteria have nominated other grounds, under a ground-share agreement to provide a bridge between a club developing its own facilities to provide safe, compliant participation in the Premiership. "The RFU and PRL would like to support and encourage all Championship clubs to continue to develop their proposals for the expansion and development of their grounds including the submission of formal planning applications." Saracens' director of rugby Mark McCall expressed his disappointment at the news, after Saracens were promoted from the Championship at the end of the 2020-21 season. "I’ve always felt that if a club has the resources and the ambition, and deserves to be in the Premiership that should never be stopped," McCall said. "The case of Exeter 12 years ago shows you what’s capable. I don’t know the reasons, it’s probably facility based, but that’s a real shame to see that." |
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CJB1
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Moseley Joined: 25 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 1936 |
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Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 20:37 |
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Is Mike Gooley not minded to dip into his evidently very deep pockets, possibly in collaboration with people from Doncaster and/or Pirates, to challenge this? There are so many inconsistencies in the case from the Premiership stance, it must be worth a go, surely?
And, to the point, if not now, then when should it happen? Edited by CJB1 - 02 Mar 2022 at 21:04 |
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"What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"
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Pirate Pig
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Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Location: Cornwall Status: Offline Points: 824 |
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Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 21:33 |
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I think the one question that does need answering is what is the promotion/relegation situation for next season. At present there is due to be no promotion from the championship to the premiership as part of the RFU/PRL agreement announced last June as outlined below; If this agreement is still in place that means all games next season will be friendlies and there will be no point in making any investment in playing squads. "The 2021-22 season will have 13 teams with no relegation at the end of the campaign and the Championship winners will be promoted. There will be no relegation or promotion in the 2022-23 season. The 2023-24 season will have a playoff between the Championship winners and the club finishing bottom of the Premiership to decide who plays in the top flight the following season." |
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PiffPaff
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Joined: 30 Oct 2014 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 1126 |
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 07:18 |
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So in other words PP, Pirates, ET, Knights, et al have two years to get their Ground capacity up to 10001 and assemble a squad to win the Championship in 2023/24 and then beat a Premiership Squad in a playoff probably away. Kind of a Catch-22 - spend money on upgrading your Ground and spend more money on upgrading your squad. Think most Clubs would struggle with that.
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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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castleparknight
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Location: Doncaster Status: Offline Points: 3077 |
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 08:50 |
Hi PiffPaff - in reality the 10001 has to be in place to go up - so that investment has to happen before they can take their place at the top table, then they have two years in which to spend more money on their squad - factoring in that neither Ealing or the Knights aren't looking to buy into the shares they will be receiving considerably less funding, but will get a piece of the TV money and potentially increased sponsorship / advertising revenue from which they will need to recover their outlay for increasing the capacity and invest in squad upgrades. An interesting conundrum to deliberate on I guess. The Knights believe they have the plans in place for the capacity issue, not sure about Ealing but will assume that something is being done on that front. At present Cornish Pirates plans for the new stadium do not have an intention of 10001 capacity but it has the scope to be expanded to meet this (happy to be corrected by my pirates colleagues if this is not the case).
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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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tigerburnie
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Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 4054 |
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 10:28 |
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As Barf seem to be able to play at the wreck, which is a public park and just put up temporary stands on a permanent basis, why can't others do the same? Tigers used to play Euro cup games at the Leicester City football ground to accommodate more fans before they extended their own ground and Quinns often do the same going to Twickers, again why couldn't Donny hire a bigger ground if they want to have more travelling fans from the likes of Tigers or Northampton?
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Sail By
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Joined: 22 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 10:44 |
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This is about identity not money. Castle Park is their home.
Donny want to look at sustainably building at their home and not have to run off and go to a soleless half empty stadium. The Championship Clubs Podcast gives a great review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ivVYczD9Y&t=1s |
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'Hopper
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Preston Grasshoppers Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1512 |
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 10:51 |
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Wake up and smell the coffee you Championship club supporters!
The Premiership and RFU have a cosy little closed shop in operation. You're never going to break in without drastic action as they'll continue to move the goalposts in their favour.
Stop playing into their hands in blooding their Academy Players for them. This action may be detrimental to your current Level 2 position, but at least you will have a team full of your own players. |
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What if the Hokey Kokey really IS what it's all about?
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kempstonblue
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 11:01 |
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CoVid recovery.
No Premiership relegation. No Championship relegation. But what of National 1? Team promoted to Championship. Leaves 14 clubs. Which is how many clubs are in National 1 next year. So is relegation suspended from National 1 to enable CoVid recovery? Thus no promotion from National 2?
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The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Thatbloke
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 11:04 |
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Easy answer - 2 will be relegated from Nat1 (the only relegations that will take place across the whole pyramid) They will be replaced by the winners of Nat2 (North & South) With OE's demise that will leave them with the 14 clubs required
Edited by Thatbloke - 03 Mar 2022 at 11:05 |
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Camquin
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 11:48 |
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Covid recovery, that is for the "professional game", we are "community game". Apparently we just play for fun, so no recovery required.
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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Kimbo
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 11:49 |
Did you go to the University of the Bl33din' Obvious?
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Our Club |
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castleparknight
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 12:33 |
If you looked at Doncaster Knights squad, players do not parachute in from the Prem Academies as a general rule (obviously there are occasions where needs must i.e. not enough players fit or well to field a squad)- we have returned players when their parent club either insist on us playing them (if they have trained well, and earned a spot in the squad they play, if not they don't). The clubs approach is season long or to the end of the season loans where they then got selected on merit - as such we do not play into their hands per se. This is how we have managed to develop a tight knit group of players and are able to sit in the top cohort of clubs in the Championship. We have a rather small squad and in reality probably a smaller amount of loan players than most (but not all) at this level.
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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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kempstonblue
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 22:49 |
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Just thinking how Rugby wants 10.000 capacity venues.
But if Luton Town get in footballs Premier League through play offs, it will be in a ground less than 10,500. |
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The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Camquin
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Posted: 04 Mar 2022 at 00:18 |
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Just when you thought it was safe to g back in the water |
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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kempstonblue
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Posted: 04 Mar 2022 at 07:12 |
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16 teams
2 conferences What a unique idea Mr Sweeny I have a more radical idea 14 teams play home and away 26 meaningful matches Top 8 play in Europe in two competitions Four in Cup, 4 in Trophy The bottom 6 join (wait for it) an English League cup with 14 Championship clubs. The top two from each of the four pools of five, go to a knockout event from quarter finals, So Championship/Bottom Premiership clubs play minimum 30 matches, 26 league, 4 cup. Quarters and semis 4 games and final. Five weekends for group matches. I know, mad, but madness and HQ sit together.
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The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Thunderbird wrote: