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Premiership II plans announced |
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Big Eddie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 5089 |
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In a democratic institution the Executive Management would listen to the valid concerns of senior institutional shareholders.........it doesn't look likely that King Billy is going to take any notice of what the Championship clubs say....
I wonder whether the Council Members will respond and kick up a fuss (which is all they are able to do) or just say OK by us King Billy..... |
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''The future isn't what it used to be''
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sedgley dave ![]() British and Irish Lion ![]() Joined: 03 Apr 2011 Location: Prestwich Status: Offline Points: 213 |
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I think I understand.
The RFU will say that the Championship clubs 'lack the ambition' to progress, and therefore have 'relegated themselves', leaving the Prem to replenish stocks with failed clubs and new franchises, eventually enough to form a 2-div Prem. Plus, perhaps, the odd defector from the Championship, (splitters!). Perhaps some Welsh or South Africans? So, the Championship becomes National 1, 1 becomes 2, and the three 2s become three 3s. Nothing has changed, except there is now a ring fence. But here's clever bit, the fence was erected by the (former) Championship clubs, not by the Prem / RFU. "We really wanted you, but you lacked the ambition."
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Big Eddie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 5089 |
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When you talk about the RFU you really mean the Executive Management AKA King Billy and his courtiers, because in reality the RFU is an organisation of some 2,000 clubs. King Billy and his courtiers are pursuing the agenda that CVC wants to pursue which is to control rugby using the assets of the RFU without giving any thought to the legitimate rights of the 99.9% majority owners of the RFU. In King Billy, CVC have the perfect puppet to drive their agenda.......
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''The future isn't what it used to be''
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Steve@Mose ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3042 |
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RFU 'playing God' with Championship sides over league proposals, says Coventry chief
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tigerburnie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3996 |
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You would think the Minister for Sport would be taking an interest in what is going on here, if this is legal how the hell can businesses exist when the governing body can remove funding and dictate what clubs can and can't do with no dialogue whatsoever.
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Breakdown ![]() First XV regular ![]() Joined: 11 Apr 2023 Location: SW London Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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I have heard tell that at least one of the Championship clubs obtained counsel's opinion for a possible referral to the Competition and Markets Authority a couple of years ago, which would I imagine still be in someone's back pocket. Given that all the Tier 2 and 3 and probably most of the rest as well operate as businesses in a demonstrably competitive market on both the supply and demand side, it would seem to me there is an obvious jurisdiction for the CMA. As you say, how can businesses exist when these sorts of ultra vires diktats are handed down without consultation or voting?
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Broken down. Beyond repair.
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islander ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 17 Mar 2010 Location: jersey Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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National papers have (slightly belatedly) got their teeth into this - it's been in Times, Telegraph and Grauniad in last 24 hrs
Telegraph pasted below... Championship clubs hit back at Bill Sweeney’s ‘unacceptable’ ultimatum There are concerns over funding in a potential 'Premiership 2', with some in the RFU criticised as 'not engaging' with Championship clubs Daniel Schofield, DEPUTY RUGBY UNION CORRESPONDENT10 January 2024 • 6:21pm Rugby Football Union chief executive Bill Sweeney’s ultimatum over Premiership 2 has been branded “unacceptable” by Championship clubs who warned the England team will be significantly damaged if they are forced into the community game. Championship clubs remain united against the governing body’s vision of bringing in a franchise-based Premiership 2, including a potentially reformed Wasps. The clubs’ primary objections centre around the lack of detail on promotion to the Premiership, player development plans, governance and funding, which could be reduced by half in the new Premiership 2. The tender process for the league, which is supposed to launch for the 2025/26 season, closes in February. Sweeney last month insisted that if not enough clubs signed up “then you revert back to the status quo and you lose this opportunity.” However, Simon Halliday, chairman of the Championship clubs, appealed to the RFU Council and Sport England to stop them from being exiled into the community game. “What Bill said before Christmas is unacceptable,” Halliday said. “It is just binary. Why does that need to be the outcome? So it needs to be challenged and I think the majority of the game would expect us to challenge it. I think the outcome is easily found and we collectively wish to find that solution. We don’t want to have it imposed upon us, particularly when it is not a whole-game solution.” Telegraph Sport understands that the RFU has made direct appeals to a number of National 1 clubs, including Rams in Berkshire and Darlington Mowden Park, to join Premiership 2. While there have been numerous meetings at Twickenham, the Championship clubs believe their views have consistently been ignored with Alistair Bow, the vice-chairman of the clubs and chairman of flood-hit Nottingham, directly accusing Sweeney of disrespecting them in a meeting in August. “They twist it to suit their own agenda on that particular day,” Bow said. “It gets extremely frustrating, especially when the chief executive will sit there and spend the whole time on his phone. We are doing our utmost to engage but it’s very difficult when you’ve got some people who obviously don’t want to engage.” Under plans shared with the Championship, the RFU would commit to providing £4 million for the proposed Premiership 2. However, £1.4 million will be kept by the RFU for central initiatives such as marketing, £1 million will be allocated towards player development, leaving just £1.6 million for the 11 clubs. Minus an estimated £600,000 for insurance and that would give each team around £80-90,000, which is less than the paltry £160,000 they currently receive in central funding. Championship clubs would also have to pay to meet the new minimum standards to enter Premiership 2. “So technically the new tier two competition is 50 per cent less funded than where we are today,” Bow said. “We need to get rid of the myth that everything we are doing is about funding. We have invested around £200 million from owners into this league since the Championship was formed. We want to protect that £200 million. We are happy to continue investing but we want other people to come on board and invest with us. At the moment the RFU are the smallest investors in the league by some distance.” The Championship clubs are presenting a united front in the face of the RFU’s advances. Conor O’Shea, the RFU’s performance director, admits that Premiership 2 would be a critical role in the pathway for young English players, but as Sweeney conceded they would not be able to form a Premiership 2 without a significant section of clubs breaking away. With the RFU holding the purse strings, the Championship has seemingly little leverage in the negotiations, but Simon Cohen, the former Leicester chief executive now advising the Championship, argues the second tier is fundamental to giving the next generation of English players game time. “If you are talking about leverage, the Premiership is going to go to 37 players plus 12 transition so they’re going to cut their squads significantly,” Cohen said. “England are lacking in players coming through and depth in certain positions. If you are correct in what they say is all they want is the best possible England team then in order to do that they need the Championship clubs. They need that game time and they need that game time in the right environment and right context to produce those players because you are not going to produce them in an academy system that is going into 37 plus 12.” The RFU remains hopeful that the Championship clubs will still apply to Premiership 2. A spokesperson said: “The RFU has been consulting with Championship clubs for over a year. We have researched and produced a commercial strategy and provided the clubs with confirmed funding at at least existing levels for 24/25 season and proposals for increased funding from 25/26 season. We will continue to consult with Championship clubs and very much hope that they choose to be part of what could become a more thriving and sustainable second professional tier.” |
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rugbychris ![]() British and Irish Lion ![]() Joined: 02 May 2019 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 205 |
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Exeter Chiefs: Pre-tax losses rise to more than £4.5m at Premiership clubNo investor is going to touch the Prem 2 Franchise with a bargepole. RFU should be concentrating on keeping the existing 10 teams afloat.
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gerg_861 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Location: Ealing Status: Offline Points: 2925 |
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Are you suggesting that they deserve even more central support?
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Richard Lowther ![]() Coaching staff ![]() ![]() Moderator Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 6632 |
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You could give the existing Premiership clubs ten times the amount of money they currently receive and they would still make losses because it would just go on higher player salaries.
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tigerburnie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3996 |
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Not all voted for the increase in the salary cap, some are concerned for the future, some are just greedy and don't care, I bet you can't guess which are the greedy ones...............lol
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Camquin ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 12017 |
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And yet, clubs are planning to increase the salary cap - possibly by £1.6m. Though, Sanderson has opposed this in last week's Rugby paper. Pointing out, Sale lose £4m while opponents Bristol were losing £5m. With those sorts of losses - more clubs will surely go bust.
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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Big Eddie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 5089 |
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.....and the rest of the rugby community is paying the price for this.
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''The future isn't what it used to be''
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rugbychris ![]() British and Irish Lion ![]() Joined: 02 May 2019 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 205 |
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Gerg_861 No certainly not. Just saying it's madness that the RFU are trying to expand to a 2nd premier league when the existing one is obviously in dire-straits. Who are they kidding?
Edited by rugbychris - 11 Jan 2024 at 15:59 |
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Richard Lowther ![]() Coaching staff ![]() ![]() Moderator Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 6632 |
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How was Caldy directly affected by Wasps, London Irish or Worcester going bust? |
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Big Eddie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 5089 |
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Jersey going bust directly cost Caldy a lot of money . 30 prepaid flights to Jersey 15 hotel rooms in Jersey Income from a home match against Jersey when we could have expected a crowd of at least 1,500 Edited by Big Eddie - 11 Jan 2024 at 16:50 |
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Richard Lowther ![]() Coaching staff ![]() ![]() Moderator Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 6632 |
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But Jersey wasn't in my list. I asked specifically about the other three as your general steer is about too much going to the Premiership and clubs there going bust and " the Rugby community is paying the price", so again what was the effect on Caldy of these three going bust?
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Big Eddie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 5089 |
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Richard the direct effect on Caldy of the three clubs you mentioned going bust is essentially the emergence of Premiership II with the RFU looking to create a franchise model based upon criteria such as branding, infrastructure etc with no element of meritocracy.
Wasps, Worcester and London Irish being considered by the RFU of being more worthy of revival of staying in the 2nd tier than clubs like Caldy and Ampthill who have reached this level based upon merit. Caldy who are constrained from building a stand in green belt and National Trust land (bequeathed in perpetuity to Caldy for sport) will be demoted by the RFU to make way for three clubs that no longer exist, have no ground and went bust owing many tens of £millions. That is how Caldy have been directly affected by the insolvency of Wasps, London Irish and Worcester
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''The future isn't what it used to be''
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Se7en ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Not given Status: Offline Points: 659 |
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Sorry to piggy back on this post, but I don't know the workings of the Championship and I'd be interested to know if Caldy, and the other Level 2 clubs, have sufficient insurance in place for these eventualities to at least soften the blow? Does an adequate level of cover even exist? Is there a central compensation fund or similar in place that clubs can apply to? For example I'm aware that both Ealing and Bedford have travelled to Caldy over the last 2 seasons for matches that have then been postponed a short time before KOs, at their clubs/their fans' own expense I presume? Maybe best as another seperate topic of discussion, sorry!
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Big Eddie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 5089 |
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In both occasions you refer to at Caldy the frozen North was the culprit. I know in the case of Ealing the game was considered to be unlikely to be played sometime in advance of the day but the team travelled anyway.
In the case of Bedford the weather forecast was such that it was likely that the pitch would be playable (it was by 2 pm on the three previous days) but on the Saturday the forecast for sun was incorrect and the pitch remained frozen. In these cases I understand the RFU's disputes committee investigates the circumstances to determine if the home side followed all protocols correctly. If they haven't I believe the RFU can instruct that the home side reimburse the travelling side's costs. Caldy followed all protocols so there was no judgement against them by the RFU
There may be insurance available but it would be prohibitively costly and from a financial point of view completely un-economic. |
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''The future isn't what it used to be''
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