Promoting the Championship
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Category: League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk
Forum Name: The Championship
Forum Description: Discuss the 12 clubs forming the English Championship.
URL: http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=19240
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Topic: Promoting the Championship
Posted By: Camquin
Subject: Promoting the Championship
Date Posted: 23 May 2022 at 18:18
Given that if we wait for the RFU to do something we will be here until doomsday, what useful steps could the clubs take, jointly and severally, to meaningfully increase attendance at the Championship, ideally ones with low cost.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Replies:
Posted By: Happy
Date Posted: 23 May 2022 at 18:38
Set up a YouTube channel that you stream all the games to which will allow you to sell the good rugby you see live
I'm sure it's more complicated to do but seems a relatively easy step
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Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 23 May 2022 at 18:50
Surely a more sustainable solution would be that the championship and National 1 clubs plus other nation league clubs who wish to, move away from the RFU. Take on no more DRs or funding and set up a whole new structure.
Effectively making the premiership a province type league, it would grow local interest promote player development and make clubs self funding. Moving away from a business model which requires funding to survive.
The RFU would do everything to stop this including redistribution of funding if they were to lose effectively 2, 3 or 4 of the leagues which are so important to player development
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Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 23 May 2022 at 18:54
Camquin wrote:
Given that if we wait for the RFU to do something we will be here until doomsday, what useful steps could the clubs take, jointly and severally, to meaningfully increase attendance at the Championship, ideally ones with low cost.
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The quickest win would be kids go free across the whole league when with an adult. Okay lose a tenner but gain behind bar, food, sweets etc and developing a sustainable fan base
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Posted By: Pirate Pig
Date Posted: 23 May 2022 at 19:38
I don't think it's as easy as we all think to make our own deals. l seem to recall that we are part of the PRL/RFU agreement which includes TV rights and league sponsor which is held by the RFU.
The good news is that this is up for renewal at the end of next season.
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Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 23 May 2022 at 20:36
I actually think that the Championship Club's Podcast is a great step in promoting the Championship at a relatively low cost. I'd hope that the league members could scrape together enough money to ensure that it was weekly.
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Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 23 May 2022 at 22:12
front5 wrote:
Surely a more sustainable solution would be that the championship and National 1 clubs plus other nation league clubs who wish to, move away from the RFU. Take on no more DRs or funding and set up a whole new structure.
Effectively making the premiership a province type league, it would grow local interest promote player development and make clubs self funding. Moving away from a business model which requires funding to survive.
The RFU would do everything to stop this including redistribution of funding if they were to lose effectively 2, 3 or 4 of the leagues which are so important to player development
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Surely you have worked out by now that the RFU don't need any player development from outside of the Premiership clubs or Academies?
The only clubs that require player development is the Premiership clubs and the RFU fund them a ludicrous amount of money and provisions of Academy rugby in order to have access to roughly 50 players per season to play in Internationals.
------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards
Remember Wakefield RFC
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Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 23 May 2022 at 22:38
Richard Lowther wrote:
front5 wrote:
Surely a more sustainable solution would be that the championship and National 1 clubs plus other nation league clubs who wish to, move away from the RFU. Take on no more DRs or funding and set up a whole new structure.
Effectively making the premiership a province type league, it would grow local interest promote player development and make clubs self funding. Moving away from a business model which requires funding to survive.
The RFU would do everything to stop this including redistribution of funding if they were to lose effectively 2, 3 or 4 of the leagues which are so important to player development
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Surely you have worked out by now that the RFU don't need any player development from outside of the Premiership clubs or Academies?
The only clubs that require player development is the Premiership clubs and the RFU fund them a ludicrous amount of money and provisions of Academy rugby in order to have access to roughly 50 players per season to play in Internationals.
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Yes, and all of that money ensures access to the best English players, who deliver high level results. Like in the last couple of Sux Nations (sic).
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Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 24 May 2022 at 00:11
Richard Lowther wrote:
front5 wrote:
Surely a more sustainable solution would be that the championship and National 1 clubs plus other nation league clubs who wish to, move away from the RFU. Take on no more DRs or funding and set up a whole new structure.
Effectively making the premiership a province type league, it would grow local interest promote player development and make clubs self funding. Moving away from a business model which requires funding to survive.
The RFU would do everything to stop this including redistribution of funding if they were to lose effectively 2, 3 or 4 of the leagues which are so important to player development
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Surely you have worked out by now that the RFU don't need any player development from outside of the Premiership clubs or Academies?
The only clubs that require player development is the Premiership clubs and the RFU fund them a ludicrous amount of money and provisions of Academy rugby in order to have access to roughly 50 players per season to play in Internationals.
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Sorry Richard but by default if the premiership club need player development so do the RFU if there was a blanket refusal of DRs the RFU would act.
Look at the current England squads please name a player that has not played in national leagues or championship as a DR
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Posted By: 373
Date Posted: 24 May 2022 at 07:20
Are there not examples of players leaving academies and ending up in Championship/Nat League clubs?
Player development isn’t just feeding the Prem clubs, it develops players across the board.
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Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 24 May 2022 at 07:39
Absolutely loads 373 and some even end up in the premiership this season Josh Peter’s for example Northampton Academy came to Blackheath went abroad during COVID came back to Doncaster now signed for Newcastle there will be many more
------------- So many Christians not enough Lions
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Posted By: All the Way
Date Posted: 24 May 2022 at 08:27
The BUCS Super Rugby is well promoted, I think the Championship and leagues beliw could take a look how they do it. The net result is lots of the games are attended by a raucous, partisan, beer-swilling crowd.
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Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 24 May 2022 at 08:58
Rabbie Burns wrote:
Absolutely loads 373 and some even end up in the premiership this season Josh Peter’s for example Northampton Academy came to Blackheath went abroad during COVID came back to Doncaster now signed for Newcastle there will be many more |
Lewis Bean - no one's academy, picked up by his regiment in the army having never played the game - two seasons at Moseley in his late 20s ->Northampton -> now Glasgow.
------------- keep the faith
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Posted By: romford
Date Posted: 24 May 2022 at 11:33
As long as the RFU control the Championship it will continue to wither on the vine.It's not a priority. A return to a governing body controlled by the clubs(like the old FDR) is the only way for the League to progress.
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Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 24 May 2022 at 17:30
front5 wrote:
Richard Lowther wrote:
front5 wrote:
Surely a more sustainable solution would be that the championship and National 1 clubs plus other nation league clubs who wish to, move away from the RFU. Take on no more DRs or funding and set up a whole new structure.
Effectively making the premiership a province type league, it would grow local interest promote player development and make clubs self funding. Moving away from a business model which requires funding to survive.
The RFU would do everything to stop this including redistribution of funding if they were to lose effectively 2, 3 or 4 of the leagues which are so important to player development
|
Surely you have worked out by now that the RFU don't need any player development from outside of the Premiership clubs or Academies?
The only clubs that require player development is the Premiership clubs and the RFU fund them a ludicrous amount of money and provisions of Academy rugby in order to have access to roughly 50 players per season to play in Internationals.
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Sorry Richard but by default if the premiership club need player development so do the RFU if there was a blanket refusal of DRs the RFU would act.
Look at the current England squads please name a player that has not played in national leagues or championship as a DR |
Your last point confirms the point I was making. It is the Premiership clubs who need the player development, not the RFU. If the Premiership clubs don't get the players from their Academies or lower leagues, they will just go abroad for them - as we constantly see.
A 'ban' on DR would mean very little to the Premiership clubs - the players may suffer - but for the Premiership club it wouldn't matter a jot.
------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards
Remember Wakefield RFC
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 26 May 2022 at 19:03
Richard Lowther wrote:
front5 wrote:
Richard Lowther wrote:
front5 wrote:
Surely a more sustainable solution would be that the championship and National 1 clubs plus other nation league clubs who wish to, move away from the RFU. Take on no more DRs or funding and set up a whole new structure.
Effectively making the premiership a province type league, it would grow local interest promote player development and make clubs self funding. Moving away from a business model which requires funding to survive.
The RFU would do everything to stop this including redistribution of funding if they were to lose effectively 2, 3 or 4 of the leagues which are so important to player development
|
Surely you have worked out by now that the RFU don't need any player development from outside of the Premiership clubs or Academies?
The only clubs that require player development is the Premiership clubs and the RFU fund them a ludicrous amount of money and provisions of Academy rugby in order to have access to roughly 50 players per season to play in Internationals.
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Sorry Richard but by default if the premiership club need player development so do the RFU if there was a blanket refusal of DRs the RFU would act.
Look at the current England squads please name a player that has not played in national leagues or championship as a DR |
Your last point confirms the point I was making. It is the Premiership clubs who need the player development, not the RFU. If the Premiership clubs don't get the players from their Academies or lower leagues, they will just go abroad for them - as we constantly see.
A 'ban' on DR would mean very little to the Premiership clubs - the players may suffer - but for the Premiership club it wouldn't matter a jot. |
Point taken re clubs not taking DRs forcing Premier clubs to go abroad - however if that was accompanied by a strict limit of say 4 per club of overseas players then Premiership clubs would be forced to develop young players and actually play them.
------------- RAID ON
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Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 26 May 2022 at 19:51
Raider999 wrote:
Point taken re clubs not taking DRs forcing Premier clubs to go abroad - however if that was accompanied by a strict limit of say 4 per club of overseas players then Premiership clubs would be forced to develop young players and actually play them. |
The RFU through the EQP scheme /payment are trying to tilt the balance in favour of English qualified players but who counts as overseas? Welsh, Irish, Scottish players? Employment law does not allow discrimination based on nationality and it opens up a can of worms. South Africans for example have the legal right to work based upon EU legislation currently enshrined in UK law. Until that right is restricted or removed then they are treated the same as a UK passport holder.
One of the arguments in favour of ring fencing is that it would give clubs the opportunity to blood in youngsters as the clubs would be safe from relegation. It is a false argument as the clubs are rewarded financially based on their league placings and qualification to Europe, so they still feel under pressure to buy in "proven" players than use "unproven" youngsters.
------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards
Remember Wakefield RFC
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Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 30 May 2022 at 22:24
Let's discuss the elephant in the room.
Unless Championship clubs have a ground that meets the Premiership criteria next season, then 22/23 will be another dead rubber and that will not promote the league at all, never mind the clubs!
So what are Ealing, Doncaster, Pirates etc doing to ensure they can't be blocked again?
------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards
Remember Wakefield RFC
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Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 31 May 2022 at 01:17
22/23 has already been call ed a dead season for promotion, even if they had such grounds.
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 31 May 2022 at 07:36
OldNick wrote:
22/23 has already been called a dead season for promotion, even if they had such grounds. |
who called 22/23 a dead season ON, and when? I know there was originally going to be a moratorium on relegation, but that was lined up on basis that a 14th club would arrive in the Prem at end of 21/22, which as we know hasn't happened. That leaves a space as things stand, with potential scope for would-be Prem sides to improve their facilities to required level, as well as some noise from the Prem that the minimum standards might (appreciate there are few if any guarantees here) be lowered slightly...
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Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 31 May 2022 at 08:59
My memory of it is that well prior to the Ealing/Doncaster application debacle 22/23 had been called frozen between the Championship and Premiership, in both directions. I do not remember that ,being changed when neither team was accepted..
Of course if Wasps, or rather their parent companies, continue to have problems renewing their bond there could be a further gap in the Premiership, and at that point I suspect a team would be found to fit the (reduced) requirements.
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Posted By: All the Way
Date Posted: 31 May 2022 at 10:20
OldNick wrote:
My memory of it is that well prior to the Ealing/Doncaster application debacle 22/23 had been called frozen between the Championship and Premiership, in both directions. I do not remember that ,being changed when neither team was accepted..
Of course if Wasps, or rather their parent companies, continue to have problems renewing their bond there could be a further gap in the Premiership, and at that point I suspect a team would be found to fit the (reduced) requirements.
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I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that, if you are suggesting the demise of a Premiership team could be a good thing for a Championship team.
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 31 May 2022 at 10:38
I can't see where Nick's suggesting that would be a good thing. He's just alluding to a highly unlikely possibility. Based on the fact that Arena Coventry Ltd, and another of the Wasps group companies, IEC Experience Ltd, have now both been issued with Companies House 'Strike Off' orders, the scenario is one that definitely will be at the forefront of that club's mind while they attempt to re-finance and pay back the overdue bond to its investors.
------------- Our City, Our Club
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 31 May 2022 at 10:53
if Wasps did become insolvent, I think the Premiership would simply continue with 12 teams.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 31 May 2022 at 11:13
Camquin wrote:
if Wasps did become insolvent, I think the Premiership would simply continue with 12 teams.
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I tend to agree.
------------- Our City, Our Club
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Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 31 May 2022 at 12:53
I read some where recently that the Premiership teams are having to readdress their player budgets and that accounts for the mass exodus of demanding players from one team to another and the that Premiership squads will be considerably smaller. The article also stated that younger ( cheaper, lower paid ) Academy players will have more opportunity for game time.
------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 31 May 2022 at 15:27
No 7 wrote:
I read some where recently that the Premiership teams are having to readdress their player budgets and that accounts for the mass exodus of demanding players from one team to another and the that Premiership squads will be considerably smaller. The article also stated that younger ( cheaper, lower paid ) Academy players will have more opportunity for game time. |
Which is as it should be. No doubt many of the older heads will be heading south and east in search of the Euro.
------------- Our City, Our Club
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 31 May 2022 at 16:59
OldNick wrote:
My memory of it is that well prior to the Ealing/Doncaster application debacle 22/23 had been called frozen between the Championship and Premiership, in both directions. I do not remember that ,being changed when neither team was accepted..
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You're right ON: there was no formal announcement of the 'freeze' being changed. But neither was there any announcement that it would remain in place while the Prem was 'stuck' at 13 teams.
Instead we have the rather frustrating middle ground where the parties involve express vague hopes [in contributions to articles like https://www.rugbypass.com/news/rfu-confirm-ealing-trailfinders-wont-be-promoted-to-premiership/" rel="nofollow - THIS ONE ] that things might turn out differently at the end of next season, while at the same time giving themselves enough wriggle room that they might not. All rather predictably unsatisfactory...
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Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 31 May 2022 at 18:30
islander wrote:
OldNick wrote:
My memory of it is that well prior to the Ealing/Doncaster application debacle 22/23 had been called frozen between the Championship and Premiership, in both directions. I do not remember that ,being changed when neither team was accepted..
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You're right ON: there was no formal announcement of the 'freeze' being changed. But neither was there any announcement that it would remain in place while the Prem was 'stuck' at 13 teams.
Instead we have the rather frustrating middle ground where the parties involve express vague hopes [in contributions to articles like https://www.rugbypass.com/news/rfu-confirm-ealing-trailfinders-wont-be-promoted-to-premiership/" rel="nofollow - THIS ONE ] that things might turn out differently at the end of next season, while at the same time giving themselves enough wriggle room that they might not. All rather predictably unsatisfactory... |
100% agree with this. Ensuring that 2022/23 had promotion/relegation should have been one of the conditions of Ealing dropping their appeal. However the more I have poked about, the .ore concerned I am that they got nothing but vague statements.
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Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2022 at 20:10
So the RFU have apparently found £222m to fund Premier 15s Rugby over 10 years £20m a season £2m a team
They seem hell bent on the Womens clubs being the same clubs as in the Pr3miership, if I get the right end of the stick.
Looks like Championship is just an annoying thorn in the RFU sides. 🤬
------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2022 at 21:43
kempstonblue wrote:
So the RFU have apparently found £222m to fund Premier 15s Rugby over 10 years£20m a season £2m a team
They seem hell bent on the Womens clubs being the same clubs as in the Pr3miership, if I get the right end of the stick.
Looks like Championship is just an annoying thorn in the RFU sides. 🤬 |
It's an utter nonsense. So, business as usual for the farts.
------------- Our City, Our Club
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2022 at 23:04
Women’s rugby at every level is the “coming” thing. There is more attention on that, mainly because the numbers are growing while male participation shrinks. I do think the Championship needs to get its act together, find a strong leader and start banging heads together to demonstrate the importance of Level 2. Its all too quiet!
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2022 at 23:23
I wonder why male participation is shrinking? Hmmm.
------------- Our City, Our Club
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2022 at 08:25
Kimbo wrote:
I wonder why male participation is shrinking?Hmmm. |
Lots of research on that - growth of other sports, pandemic identified “better” things to do on a Saturday, preference for individual sports over team sports, etc. Women’s rugby is going through the sort of growth spurt that men’s rugby had 50 years ago.
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Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2022 at 10:18
Halliford wrote:
Women’s rugby at every level is the “coming” thing. There is more attention on that, mainly because the numbers are growing while male participation shrinks.I do think the Championship needs to get its act together, find a strong leader and start banging heads together to demonstrate the importance of Level 2. Its all too quiet! |
Totally support the growth of Women's Rugby but it still has a long way to go when you consider that the Senior England Male team are responsible for 90% of the RFU's annual income.
------------- All Knwoing All Seeing
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2022 at 13:54
kempstonblue wrote:
So the RFU have apparently found £222m to fund Premier 15s Rugby over 10 years£20m a season £2m a team
They seem hell bent on the Womens clubs being the same clubs as in the Pr3miership, if I get the right end of the stick.
Looks like Championship is just an annoying thorn in the RFU sides. 🤬 |
Alternately the RFU is an annoying thorn in the side of the Championship.
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2022 at 20:37
kempstonblue wrote:
So the RFU have apparently found £222m to fund Premier 15s Rugby over 10 years£20m a season £2m a team
They seem hell bent on the Womens clubs being the same clubs as in the Pr3miership, if I get the right end of the stick.
Looks like Championship is just an annoying thorn in the RFU sides. 🤬 |
Given they kicked out Richmond, the most historically successful women's club in England, in order to let Exeter in, it's pretty clear that's exactly what they want. (though I believe Wasps Ladies are affiliated to Wasps FC and not Coventry Wasps but minor technicalities).
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Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2022 at 20:50
Ditto Lichfield who had around 6 or 7 internationals in their team before those players were forced to move on to maintain their status. Scandalous in my view but nothing surprises me any more with this ragbag governing body of ours
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Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 07:19
Harlequins didn’t have a team and bought out Aylesford women
------------- So many Christians not enough Lions
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Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 09:32
Just about the RFU ensuring that the closed shop remains a closed shop - and let the cartel get stronger. Likely that to gain promotion to the premiership you will also need to have a women's rugby team eligible for promotion to the premiership at the same time......just about to send an amazon sewing kit to RFU HQ to help them out with their stitching requirements.
------------- Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 10:14
I am not against funding the women's game but we must not make the same mistake as we have in the Men's game. This money must be to promote the English game not to enable clubs simply to buy in players from other countries. At present the Premier 15's does not have enough quality players for the number of teams it has now. Any funding must come with strict limits to overseas players otherwise we are simply funding other countries development.
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 12:09
Sadly wb the dye is cast. I've had similar arguments about Prem Academies having Welsh, Irish and Scottish players on their books. Originally Academies were setup for the production of EQPs that seems to have lapsed and the Premier 15s will be no different. Look at the new Teams, full of non-English players Exeter might as well call themselves Exeter North America Nippon Cymru Women.
Do not believe the figures that are being quoted about the expansion of the Women's game. Yes it has had some growth but scratch the surface and its hardly massive. Pumping money into a League that doesn't and will not ever pay for itself is madness.
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 12:43
Ealing Trailfinders / Mike Gooley has piled money / personel into a Womans team based at Brunel University.
------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 13:45
No, I'm not against proportional funding of the women's game.
Proportional.
------------- Our City, Our Club
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Posted By: donnyladinsheffield
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2022 at 12:00
PiffPaff wrote:
Sadly wb the dye is cast. I've had similar arguments about Prem Academies having Welsh, Irish and Scottish players on their books. Originally Academies were setup for the production of EQPs that seems to have lapsed and the Premier 15s will be no different. Look at the new Teams, full of non-English playersExeter might as well call themselves Exeter North America Nippon Cymru Women.
Do not believe the figures that are being quoted about the expansion of the Women's game. Yes it has had some growth but scratch the surface and its hardly massive. Pumping money into a League that doesn't and will not ever pay for itself is madness. |
Not saying you are wrong but do you include the Prem and Championship in that?
------------- He's alright and he don't care; He's got thermal underwear
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