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Why PRL are so desperate to ring fence

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Topic: Why PRL are so desperate to ring fence
Posted By: gerg_861
Subject: Why PRL are so desperate to ring fence
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2021 at 12:05
I was reading the Rugby Paper today, and a stat that I was unaware of jumped out at me: the next 4 years of payments under the Professional Game Agreement to the PRL cartel is based on the RFU's revenue this year. According to Nick Cain, the payments to the PRL are meant to halve for the next four years, from £28m/annum to £14m/annum. Still nearly 3x what the Championship was getting before the latest cuts, but when you factor in a few other numbers, the PRL's financial cliff edge is even more stark:

* PRL sold 27% of its revenue to CVC for a lump sum that most clubs wasted on imported players.
* The BT renegotiations were bumbled, leading to a DECREASE in annual revenue of over £250k/annum per club. (£40m/annum to £36.67m/annum)

With those three factors, each PRL member could expect to see their non-Gate non-Merchandise revenue drop from £5.23m/annum in 2019 to £2.84m in 2022. Without savages cuts to the Championship budget, the gap between leagues would have become almost manageable, and some of the clubs who have been mismanaged could be caught.

Even with those cuts, the gap will be much smaller for the next 3 years at least - it is absolutely no coincidence that that is the time frame that the PRL and RFU are mooting for a hold on promotion relegation. The cads.



Replies:
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2021 at 13:30
I am sure CVC will ride to the rescue with alternative revenue streams

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RAID ON


Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 07:14
Latest coverage on this...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-9463677/Premiership-relegation-set-suspended-2024-25-season.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-9463677/Premiership-relegation-set-suspended-2024-25-season.html

NB it's the Daily Mail - so it appears (to me) highly speculative, listing a chain of events that is being talked about by some, and could happen, but might well not, raising some major and as-yet unanswered questions along the way...


Posted By: 373
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 08:43
Because the effects of COVID will be long lasting, there’s no point encouraging clubs to pump millions in to avoid relegation if it isn’t a sustainable model. 

It will also, hopefully, continue the practice of clubs looking to bring in their own ‘homegrown’ players rather than bringing in players on short term contracts on high £££. It could even result in the Championship taking 4 years to get its own house in order. 

The whole framing of relegation being a huge draw negates the fact that in most years there is no relegation scrap at all, it’s been 5 years since the club relegated was even within 10 points of the next placed side, going back 10 years to when it was even more than a two horse race!

If it’s a case of things getting ‘worse’ before they get better, then it’s a positive. 

I fear most of the ranting is standard anti-RFU bile without consideration of the wider picture. 


Posted By: Trailfinder
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 09:15
I am very anti this proposal but I suspect it is what will happen. In my view it just encourages mediocrity in the Prem and discourages investment in the Champ. If anyone really thinks this would be just for a few years then they are a fool. 

There needs to be root and branch reform of the professional setup in England but unfortunately turkeys don’t vote for Christmas. 


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 09:17
Well said 373. Who knows it might even allow for more English coaches to be given the chance to develop  so that we actually have some kind of succession planning other than bringing in former international 7s coaches or Australian rugby league coaches to prepare our national 15-a-side team.


Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 09:24
Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

Because the effects of COVID will be long lasting, there’s no point encouraging clubs to pump millions in to avoid relegation if it isn’t a sustainable model. 

It will also, hopefully, continue the practice of clubs looking to bring in their own ‘homegrown’ players rather than bringing in players on short term contracts on high £££. It could even result in the Championship taking 4 years to get its own house in order. 

The whole framing of relegation being a huge draw negates the fact that in most years there is no relegation scrap at all, it’s been 5 years since the club relegated was even within 10 points of the next placed side, going back 10 years to when it was even more than a two horse race!

If it’s a case of things getting ‘worse’ before they get better, then it’s a positive. 

I fear most of the ranting is standard anti-RFU bile without consideration of the wider picture. 

I disagree with the above quite strongly. No club is forced to pump millions in to avoid relegation - developing your squad through your academy will avoid that in the long term. If clubs mismanage their player development and need to bring in outside players, that's their choice within the salary cap. 

I'm unsure what you mean by the Championship 'getting its house in order'? If you are talking of sustainability, then In what universe does being cut adrift from the pyramid structure, denied funding, and denied exposure do anything to enable the Championship to grow and become sustainable?

In regard to relegation being a draw, I will only point to the tense battle between Newcastle and Leicester 2 seasons ago and contrast that to the garbage teams/games that have been plopped out by Gloucester and Worcester recently. They 'blooded' a lot of youngsters in these games, but only in the sense that you blood a sacrificial lamb, creating dead rubbers that no one should ever have to pay for.


Posted By: Trailfinder
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 09:28
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

Well said 373. Who knows it might even allow for more English coaches to be given the chance to develop  so that we actually have some kind of succession planning other than bringing in former international 7s coaches or Australian rugby league coaches to prepare our national 15-a-side team.

Unfortunately I think you have sampled the cool aid, there are plenty of English coaches in the Premiership if this is your measure of success. There is a concerted PR exercise by the Prem to convince everyone that ring fencing will solve everything. When all it does is save them money. 


Posted By: Rob C
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 09:44
Originally posted by Trailfinder Trailfinder wrote:

I am very anti this proposal but I suspect it is what will happen. In my view it just encourages mediocrity in the Prem and discourages investment in the Champ. If anyone really thinks this would be just for a few years then they are a fool. 

There needs to be root and branch reform of the professional setup in England but unfortunately turkeys don’t vote for Christmas. 

Recent results in the Champions Cup would suggest that mediocrity in the Premiership is already a reality with the French clubs, in particular, setting new standards in terms of skills and intensity. 


Posted By: Trailfinder
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 09:54
Or is it because the Prem is ringfenced this season?!?

Personally I think it is more do do with the differing budgets/salary cap levels between the leagues. But then Exeter were able to do it last season...


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 09:55
Rob C did you not watch the 2 all French quarters on Sunday-pretty poor in terms of both skills and intensity. 78 points scored -one try.Old school English rugby!


Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 10:28
I've always been completely for the concept of promotion and relegation. However to say that ring fencing encourages mediocrity and meaningless games isn't borne out if we look at it in action. Super Rugby down under is ring fenced, and it is by far and away the best and most entertaining rugby in the world at the moment. This season's games have been fantastic. And the NFL manages very well without relegation. I can see the arguments on both sides and I'm not as certain as I was on the issue.


Posted By: Rob C
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 10:31
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

Rob C did you not watch the 2 all French quarters on Sunday-pretty poor in terms of both skills and intensity. 78 points scored -one try.Old school English rugby!

Probably not a great comparison but I used to think how average some of the American heavyweight boxers looked when fighting each other in the early eighties and how Frank Bruno would beat them easily - then he fought Tim Witherspoon...

Likewise - how good do Bristol, Sale and Exeter look at Premiership level?

Sometimes two evenly matched heavyweights makes for a dull spectacle.  




Posted By: Trailfinder
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 10:33
I don’t think Super Rugby is all it’s cracked up to be, yes the top third is a high and entertaining standard (particularly the NZ franchises) but the bottom two thirds make for meaningless games and the stadiums are largely empty. I think even in NZ they are seeing participation falling. 

Plus you cannot compare rugby with NFL, different sports, different countries, different commercial markets. Ringfencing already exists in rugby and the Pro 14 is how it looks. 


Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 10:59
As an American who loves the NFL, I can say that the system has some huge flaws. There are certain teams (e.g. the Cleveland Browns, the New York Jets) who are mismanaged and under invested in for literally decades at a time. In addition, by week 10, there are constant dead rubbers, which are only mitigated by having 32 teams, which allows you to swap the dead rubbers to timeslots where they don't matter. The threat of relegation would do a lot to stop both of those headaches. 


Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 11:04
Originally posted by Trailfinder Trailfinder wrote:

I don’t think Super Rugby is all it’s cracked up to be, yes the top third is a high and entertaining standard (particularly the NZ franchises) but the bottom two thirds make for meaningless games and the stadiums are largely empty. I think even in NZ they are seeing participation falling. 

Plus you cannot compare rugby with NFL, different sports, different countries, different commercial markets. Ringfencing already exists in rugby and the Pro 14 is how it looks. 

Also, do you really want a situation where the 'owners' can decide on what teams are in or out, regardless of merit? You could ask the Southern Kings, the Cheetahs, the Western Force, and the Sun Wolves how that goes. From 'ring fencing paused' to a full on franchise system is a very small step.


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 14:43
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

Rob C did you not watch the 2 all French quarters on Sunday-pretty poor in terms of both skills and intensity. 78 points scored -one try.Old school English rugby!

I only saw the second game which was played in very bad weather. La Rochelle played with a great deal of skill and intensity in dismantling the Sale South Africans the day before however.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 17:28
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

Rob C did you not watch the 2 all French quarters on Sunday-pretty poor in terms of both skills and intensity. 78 points scored -one try.Old school English rugby!


Indeed, the first one in particular was extremely dire!

However, when you look at the budgets of the French sides in comparison to Premiership teams it is hardly surprising they have massive squads a lot of which are full of Southern Hemisphere internationals. (When you look at Premiership squads - there seems to be a trend to importing Sth African bulk - Sale in particular)

I would like to see a strict limit of 5 non-national players in each 23 man squad. If nothing is done it will soon be very difficult to get a competitive England side (if it isn't already)

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RAID ON


Posted By: fenboy
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 17:52
Until the Championship consists solely of clubs able and willing to take their place in the Premiership should they win the league then automatic promotion and relegation to the Premiership is not a credible option.
IMHO, of course.


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Fucti Fineaux


Posted By: Cherub
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2021 at 19:39
Promotion and relegation is the most essential ingredient of league rugby. But I do agree that the jump from the Championship to the Premiership is a special circumstance. Surely the answer is a simple one. If the club that wins the Championship has the facilities to support Premiership rugby then they get promoted. If they don't, nobody goes up and nobody comes down. Surely this is better than ring-fencing.

My team Ampthill deserve to be in the Championship by working their way up through the divisions. But using a silly fairy tale example, if they won the Championship next season they would not be promoted because of their current facilities. But what it has done is get a club like Ampthill looking at creating a whole new complex just up the road which would boost the local economy and become a major sporting hub in Central Bedfordshire.

Lack of funding is an issue. The number of teams in each division is an issue. But don't mess with promotion and relegation.


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 07:15
Totally agree Cherub

And just imagine if, instead of a parachute payment, the promoted team got that money (yeah, yeah, PRL shares and all that aside) it would give more teams, at this level, the incentive to push for it.

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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 10:48
It is a pity that changes to the pyramid do not require a vote of all members rather than just the council.


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Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: Guinness John
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 15:57
So, assuming Saracens and Ealing go up that would leave 9 of this year's Championship clubs for next season. Assuming London Scottish return that's 10. Do we think 2 more will be promoted to get back to 12, or, hold on tight, how about 4 to make 14.  Also, I guess though not as big, could the top 4 cope with the step up into Championship level finance. I am not looking forward to next season,  I fear for the Championship in the coming years. Premiership 2nd division with not required Premiership youngsters is my guess. The true identity of clubs will disappear, with lots of team changes every week. Hope I am proved wrong though. 

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Bedford Blues Supporter of the Year 2010 - 2011


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 17:36
The problem is that we have not played a season, so who would you promote.
Leeds would have a case that it should be them - but they would be a totally unknown quantity whever they play.

Otherwise we are talking Rosslyn Park, Rams, Chinnor and Blackheath to make a 14 team league.

Rosslyn Paerk andBlackheath need no introduction.
Rams came up from National 2 and surprised everyone - including probably themselves.
Chinnor are a narly little club that have been doing very well in National 1. They beat Ampthill at home in their encounter at National 1. One of the coldest winds I have encountered blowing across the ground.

There is going to be a major shake up of the league at the end of next season. If theChampionship could survive for one seaosn with 10 sides - perhaps playing each other 3 times then it would make life a lot easier - and we would know how good Leeds really are.

14 seeems to be the number the NCA and RFU have agreed for maximum league size, but I would argue that  there is a case for a 16 team championship.

But I am not sure there are 44 clubs wanting to travel the length and breadth of the country - so I am not sure that National 1 would be viable.  It might be that it is 6 up and 10 down to the new regional leauges. But if there are it would be 6 up and no relegation in National 1. With two up and no relegation at National 2



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Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: Geoff DC
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 17:42
Too many London/SE teams in that scenario Camquin


Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 18:41
CQ, RFU wanted 12 Team NCA Leagues but NCA argued for 14, so doubt it will go back to 16.

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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 19:25
Technically Rams and Chinnor are both in South Western Division.
It is sort of a fact of life, though Hockey has 7 out of 11 London and South East clubs in its top league.

Could all change next year. The other clubs just need to do better. Darlington and Plymouth could easily be in contention.

I know the RFU wanted 12, but getting rid of the third National league and the associated travel funding might be sufficient. The big question is how much support the Championship clubs would get, the RFU might simply take the current reduced sums and divide that by 16 instead of 12.


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Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 20:14
Originally posted by Guinness John Guinness John wrote:

So, assuming Saracens and Ealing go up that would leave 9 of this year's Championship clubs for next season. Assuming London Scottish return that's 10. Do we think 2 more will be promoted to get back to 12, or, hold on tight, how about 4 to make 14.  Also, I guess though not as big, could the top 4 cope with the step up into Championship level finance. I am not looking forward to next season,  I fear for the Championship in the coming years. Premiership 2nd division with not required Premiership youngsters is my guess. The true identity of clubs will disappear, with lots of team changes every week. Hope I am proved wrong though. 

That's quite an assumption GJ (your first one). As introduced, the recent story is in the Daily Mail and is highly speculative, and even that doesn't say that a second club would be promoted this season (if there was it would make a bit of a farce of the play-off). The article claims the 14th team would be added 'in due course'.

If it was just one up this summer, with a 14th club to follow in 2022, that makes next season hard to manage: when would the 14th club's identity be confirmed, and would they have to win the Championship next season in order to seal the deal? What would happen if they didn't? What if more than one club want to bid for the 14th spot? (seems unlikely, but you never know)

I'd expect LS to be back in the Champ mix by September, but bringing up clubs from Nat 1 after they haven't played for 18 months would present lots of challenges...

I don't pretend to know the answers; the future looks somewhat murky. Confused


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 20:21
Originally posted by Dotcom Dotcom wrote:

Too many London/SE teams in that scenario Camquin


Where you are based should have no bearing on who plays in what division.

Camquin - As for the suggestion Leeds would have a case - haven't you got a short memory - they were lucky they weren't thrown out 2018-19

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RAID ON


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 22:48
I am aware, but the last season they played was in the Championship.
Even if they failed to pay their players.

Had we had a National One season they were suggesting they put out a team with significant numbers of university students who normally play against Loughborough's second XV.
I was expecting them to struggle.

But without results they could claim that as they would not have been relegated were the league expanded this season so should be considered for promotion.

But if the expansion is at the end of next season, we would know how good Leeds are.


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Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2021 at 11:15
Originally posted by Guinness John Guinness John wrote:

So, assuming Saracens and Ealing go up that would leave 9 of this year's Championship clubs for next season. Assuming London Scottish return that's 10. Do we think 2 more will be promoted to get back to 12, or, hold on tight, how about 4 to make 14.  Also, I guess though not as big, could the top 4 cope with the step up into Championship level finance. I am not looking forward to next season,  I fear for the Championship in the coming years. Premiership 2nd division with not required Premiership youngsters is my guess. The true identity of clubs will disappear, with lots of team changes every week. Hope I am proved wrong though. 

Surely that should read - "assuming the Top Two Teams in the league go up" as far as I see it there are two teams ahead of Sarries currently, and still will be after this weekend, and Pirates are on the same points as them.


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Guinness John
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2021 at 13:27
Point noted. That's the trouble with assuming. I assumed those two were the only ones with the financial backing to be able to compete. No disrespect to anyone else. If Ealing beat Saracens on the 24th that would make things really interesting. 

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Bedford Blues Supporter of the Year 2010 - 2011


Posted By: dumbape
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 00:37
I have always held that at all levels of sport every one has to play what is in front of them and do the best they can. The PRL and the RFU have consistently undermined any concept of fairness through what is little more than cynical manipulation of the game at the higher tiers.
The best thing I can imagine is for a club to come up through the leagues to reach the highest levels. Many of you support clubs that have done just this. 25 years ago Ealing were playing at Horsenden Hill in Perivale struggling to survive. This is a club founded in 1871. It very nearly folded a couple of times, but it didn’t.
A not so small group of members loved it and worked flippin hard to make it better and season after season that commitment showed in the dedication to the game and its community spirit. Many of you guys know what that is - you see it your clubs. If you have been around Ealing Rugby for any period of time you have seen that spirit lift the club up through ALL the national leagues. A key part of its success was its unwavering commitment to young players. I would contend that this was amongst the best in country. A quick thumbnail calculation suggests over 15,000 kids got to experience mini and youth rugby through the club and its volunteers. It is a grass roots rugby club in the finest tradition of the game.
Some of you know that a key part to the 1st team success is down to Trailfinders and Mike Gooley and their generous support of the whole club, but the players, coaches and club members all played their part too. I believe the support came not from the success of the first team, but from appreciating the clubs spirit and desire to be better.

I cannot express anywhere near enough just how much I would love to see Ealing Trailfinders win this league. It would be two fingers up to those who want to ring fence and seal the deal on a PRL rugby cartel and show every club in the leagues what is possible if you work for your dreams.
To do it they have to beat one of the strongest sides in Europe. Our friends in Cornwall have already done this, Donnie might, but Ealing have to... Fire and Flare boys

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What a blessing it would be if we could open and shut our ears as easily as we open and shut our eyes!


Posted By: stadium
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 09:18
English Rugby is in a dire state as reflected by the results at the International Six Nations and the European Champions Cup. Promoting Ealing who have a very small core of support of 500 fans and their facilities at the ground do not meet PRL criteria. White City????? lousy place to watch football or rugby. Saracens were the best team in Europe and have been missed in the PRL. If Ealing beat Saracens which is very unlikely then they should be given the chance to play in the PRL. I just hope for the future of English Rugby that we do not have to see another London Welsh fiasco.


Posted By: Trailfinder
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 10:20
I find it laughable when people use the most recent set of results to suit their own narrative. Six months ago England were lifting the trophy but now they are in a dire state.

Ealing’s crowd size is just the easiest stick to beat them with but the idea that crowd size alone should be the sole arbiter of success is flawed. Why bother with the Prem, just give the trophy to Leicester each year! 


Posted By: Trailfinder
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 10:36
Originally posted by dumbape dumbape wrote:

I have always held that at all levels of sport every one has to play what is in front of them and do the best they can. The PRL and the RFU have consistently undermined any concept of fairness through what is little more than cynical manipulation of the game at the higher tiers.
The best thing I am imagine is for a club to come up through the leagues to reach the highest levels. Many of you support clubs that have done just this. 25 years ago Ealing were playing at Horsenden Hill in Perivale struggling to survive. This is a club founded in 1871. It very nearly folded a couple of times, but it didn’t.
A not so small group of members loved it and worked flippin hard to make it better and season after season that commitment showed in the dedication to the game and its community spirit. Many of you guys know what that is - you see it your clubs. If you have been around Ealing Rugby for any period of time you have seen that spirit lift the club up through ALL the national leagues. A key part of its success was its unwavering commitment to young players. I would contend that this was amongst the best in country. A quick thumbnail calculation suggests something like over 15,000 kids got to experience mini and youth rugby through the club and its volunteers. It is a grass roots rugby club in the finest tradition of the game.
Some of you know that a key part to the 1st team success is down to Trailfinders and Mike Gooley and their generous support of the whole club, but the players, coaches and club members all played their part too. I believe is support came not from the success of the first team, but from appreciating the clubs spirit and desire to be better.

I cannot express anywhere near enough just how much I would love to see Ealing Trailfinders win this league. It would be two fingers up to those who want to ring fence and seal the deal on a PRL rugby cartel and show every club in the leagues what is possible if you work for your dreams.
To do it they have to beat one of the strongest sides in Europe. Our friends in Cornwall have already done this, Donnie might, but Ealing have to... Fire and Flare boys

Very well said dumbape 


Posted By: Bedfordian
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 11:14
I find it laughable when people use the most recent set of post results to suit their own narrative Wink


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 11:23
PRL are not a cartel.
If they were it would be illegal.
I believe this has been decided in court, when challenged by Rotherham and Londn Welsh.


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Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 11:50
So how would you describe a group of entities who own a dominant share of the market, and who collude to prevent free entry into that market?


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 11:54
Dumbape I applaud your support for your club. However my interpretation of a grass roots club 'in the finest tradition of the game' is one built from the ground up rather than reliant on a multi millionaire buying in a 1st XV squad -with almost 50% changes each season- to buy league table success. Without doubt since establishing themselves as by some way the second best team in the Championship they have now started to develop an Academy and Women's section which the cynic in me could suggest box ticking for Premiership entry. If not why not do this previously? The number of young players who have played at the club is admirable and is repeated in many similar size clubs -but has no link to the current success of the 1st XV. Despite beating Saracens twice in the Trailfinders Cup in pre season, less than 300 people paid to watch the first home Championship match of the season. It may be possible to buy a team to play in the Premiership but it does not seem possible to buy hearts and minds of supporters. I really hope they gain promotion for all the money , effort and passion Mr Gooley has invested. But to suggest this is an example of a community club come good I am afraid is rewriting too much history.


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 12:38
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

So how would you describe a group of entities who own a dominant share of the market, and who collude to prevent free entry into that market?
CVC?


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 12:54
Ealing have had an academy programme in some form for a while since potentially 2012?
Im not sure about the womens
But the club is massive, one of the biggest in London? 
Gate wise yes there are low, but in terms of playing numbers from across the club it's very impressive.


Posted By: Trailfinder
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 12:59
Originally posted by Bedfordian Bedfordian wrote:

I find it laughable when people use the most recent set of post results to suit their own narrative Wink

Spoken like a true Bedfordian! WinkWink


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 13:01
Originally posted by Trailfinder Trailfinder wrote:

I find it laughable when people use the most recent set of results to suit their own narrative. Six months ago England were lifting the trophy but now they are in a dire state.

Ealing’s crowd size is just the easiest stick to beat them with but the idea that crowd size alone should be the sole arbiter of success is flawed. Why bother with the Prem, just give the trophy to Leicester each year! 

I quite agree.


Posted By: dumbape
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 13:28
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

Dumbape I applaud your support for your club. However my interpretation of a grass roots club 'in the finest tradition of the game' is one built from the ground up rather than reliant on a multi millionaire buying in a 1st XV squad -with almost 50% changes each season- to buy league table success. Without doubt since establishing themselves as by some way the second best team in the Championship they have now started to develop an Academy and Women's section which the cynic in me could suggest box ticking for Premiership entry. If not why not do this previously? The number of young players who have played at the club is admirable and is repeated in many similar size clubs -but has no link to the current success of the 1st XV. Despite beating Saracens twice in the Trailfinders Cup in pre season, less than 300 people paid to watch the first home Championship match of the season. It may be possible to buy a team to play in the Premiership but it does not seem possible to buy hearts and minds of supporters. I really hope they gain promotion for all the money , effort and passion Mr Gooley has invested. But to suggest this is an example of a community club come good I am afraid is rewriting too much history.

You could not be more wrong... ETFC have been pioneers at the junior club leveller decades and it has nothing to do with promotion. Girls Rugby was developed at the club nearly 20 years and I doubt if many clubs have put so many volunteers through coaching and refereeing badges at Mini and Junior level in order to manage safety and the quality of play. The Academy has certainly been around for more than a decade as part of our player pathway. The club was a pioneer in Child Protection and in the early days of the government scheme ran its' CRB programme directly with the folks in Liverpool before it was more widely adopted by clubs . The club has had community programmes in place again for 20 years with trained volunteers working in schools across the area over the past 10 years this has been extended as the club grew.

Ask Ben Ward how long he has been with club... you might be surprised. He was an outstanding player for us as a young man and now is our Director of Rugby... I see that as home grown talent and clear demonstration of the clubs spirit. Sure there is player rotation and very many players have come to us and been developed going onto to other clubs at all levels including the premiership why is this a bad thing? Some won't meet the clubs requirements or find the competition for shirts too challenging and move on. Others thrive and the results of this can be seen in results. There are hordes of rugby clubs in the area and this undoubtedly dilutes attendances as do all the other distractions like football etc. Remember too that three other much high profile clubs have been our competition during our journey - Richmond, Rosslyn Park and London Scottish who all played at the highest level back when we were running in the mud of Horsenden Hill.

I'm am being a little defensive here, but it is all to easy to misjudge situations when you don't have the information. Another point to make is that MG is no mans fool. If he had wanted a premiership team 20 odd years ago there were plenty of clubs that would have been far better options! What has happened is down to sweat, effort and ambition, with a lot of careful planning and a commitment to be the best we can be.

HTH              

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What a blessing it would be if we could open and shut our ears as easily as we open and shut our eyes!


Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 13:40
Marigold, what is the source of your 300 users for watching the stream? That is very interesting info that I hadn't seen.


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 13:50
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

PRL are not a cartel.
If they were it would be illegal.
I believe this has been decided in court, when challenged by Rotherham and Londn Welsh.

Can't remember what happened with Roth, but it's worth noting that Welsh didn't get to court as the opposition folded in advance.



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keep the faith


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 23:45
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

So how would you describe a group of entities who own a dominant share of the market, and who collude to prevent free entry into that market?

A successful business?



Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2021 at 06:59
Gerg  all Championship clubs receive the figures for all Championship matches. A work colleague is closely involved with one of the clubs.


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2021 at 09:40
It would be interesting to see what all the figures are especially for Saracens. I can not believe any match will will have a huge audiance. Does anyone know any figures of any live stream so far.

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Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.



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