The RFU's continuing incompetence
Printed From: National League Rugby Discussion Forum
Category: League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk
Forum Name: National 2
Forum Description: Discuss the 42 clubs in the fourth level of the English game.
URL: http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=18277
Printed Date: 27 May 2024 at 20:03
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: The RFU's continuing incompetence
Posted By: Big Eddie
Subject: The RFU's continuing incompetence
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 18:07
|
The RFU is just a joke. With a fanfare they announce on their website that the Player of the Month for February is Caldy's peerless centre Gav Roberts..............big build up and platitudes from the RFU but they put a large picture of the wrong Caldy player (Ben Jones) next to the title PLAYER OF THE MONTH The thing is the RFU won't care because it is only the 'Community Game' and when did that ever matter to the RFU......just pathetic ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Replies:
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 18:10
|
If this was a Premiership player or an England player heads would roll and the RFU would get their CEO to fall on his very expensive sword. I am beyond angry with this continuing massive disrespect and couldn't care less attitude from the RFU................they are worse than useless but what is so shocking is that they just don't care a jot about any of us. ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 18:20
|
The RFU overspend on the new stand by £30m..................no sanction The RFU bail out Yorkshire Carnegie with £500k when it is clearly against the spirit of what rugby is all about...........no sanction But Rams make a small administrative mistake and they deduct 5 points from them and remove all their travel payment and spend circa £20k on QCs and tribunal costs to beast a hard working community club Their patronising attitude to rugby at large is just a pathetic joke..................and then they even get that badly wrong. They disgust me ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: seagoon
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2020 at 19:39
No doubt when Caldy win Team of the Season they'll put a large picture of Stourbridge on the website  ------------- Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana |
Big Eddie wrote:Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 09:12
|
I have called the RFU on the number they provide which is 0208 892 2000. In order to point out their mistake I called at 2 minutes past 9 a.m. I had to navigate the options, I selected option 4 to speak to the operator. I have been listening to their dreadful on hold music for the last 10 minutes. There is absolutely no indication of when or if I will get to speak to anyone. To be honest this isn't a surprise but what was surprising is that at the ten minute mark they just cut me off. ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 09:19
|
I don't want a ticket option 1. I am not querying GMS option 2. My query is not about schools colleges or coaching option 3 . So I am only left with option 4 speak to an operator. I am trying option 4 again. This time the RFU cut me off after 6 minutes ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 09:24
|
I have now tried all of the options the RFU's number 0208 892 2000 has given me. None were satisfactory. They have either asked me to dial another number, put me on hold or asked me to go to their website. Why am I not surprised ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 09:39
| Your first mistake was to ring the RFU at 9.00 am , no one from the RFU gets in before 10 am and that is the tea lady who gets the early (11.00 am) tea and coffee ready for the employees who will arrive at 11.00. Lunch is 12.00 -14.00 and afternoon tea at 15.00 - 15.30 and work finishes at 16.00 to avoid rush hour traffic . you will be able to contact someone between those hours . |
Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 09:45
| Do I detect a note of cynicism here? |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 09:47
|
I have not had any luck speaking to the RFU by phone so I have resorted to email. I reproduce my email below. Let's see if this elicits a response. Dear Sirs, I have made numerous calls to the RFU this morning on the number 0208 892 2000 shown on the RFU website. However after numerous times hanging on until I am cut off without notice I am resorting to email to try and contact the RFU. Under your News section on the RFU website you have designated Caldy's Gavin Roberts as the RFU's Player of the month for February 2020. That is a nice plaudit for the player but I am sure the gloss has been taken off somewhat because the picture accompanying the Award is not of Gavin Roberts!! The player you have shown is Caldy's Ben Jones. The RFU has got something wrong here......................is the award meant to go to Gavin Roberts or Ben Jones? Please can you correct this. It must be disconcerting for all involved. ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 10:02
|
Wow that was quick. Got a reply back from the RFU, reproduced in full below.............. but I don't think this prompt reply helps much. ................................................................................................................................................ Thank you for your email.
Please note, where possible your email will be forwarded on to the relevant department. However, if your enquiry is regarding any of the below please re-direct your query:
- Tickets & Event day parking: https://help.englandrugby.com/hc/en-gb/categories/360000607591-England-Rugby-Club-Membership" rel="nofollow - EnglandRugby.com/TicketHelp or visit https://help.englandrugby.com/hc/en-gb/categories/360000607591-England-Rugby-Club-Membership" rel="nofollow - England Rugby Supporters Club
- Game Management System (GMS) Support & RFU ID Enquiries: Visit https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/running-your-club/game-management-system/updates-and-support" rel="nofollow - GMS Updates and Support or email mailto:GMSSupport@rfu.com" rel="nofollow - GMS@rfu.com
- England Rugby Store: mailto:customer.services@englansrugbystore.com" rel="nofollow - customer.services@englansrugbystore.com or call 0333 014 4546; Stadium store enquiries: 0203 955 6952
- Fixtures & Results: Email https://mail.uk2.net/#NOP" rel="nofollow - - Safeguarding: Visit https://www.englandrugby.com/governance/safeguarding" rel="nofollow - Safeguarding or email mailto:safeguarding@RFU.com" rel="nofollow - safeguarding@RFU.com - Player Welfare & First Aid Course Enquiries: Visit https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/playing/player-welfare-rugby-safe" rel="nofollow - or email mailto:rugbysafe@rfu.com" rel="nofollow - - Discipline: Visit https://www.englandrugby.com/governance/discipline" rel="nofollow - Discipline or email mailto:disciplinerfu@rfu.com" rel="nofollow - - Age Grade Discipline (all U18 teams/Schools/Colleges): Email mailto:disciplinerfu@rfu.com" rel="nofollow - - DBS Applications: Email mailto:dbs@rfu.disclosures.co.uk" rel="nofollow - - Adult Men Player Registrations & Queries: Visit https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/running-your-club/player-registration/adult-men-registration" rel="nofollow - Adult Men Registration or email mailto:mensplayerregistration@rfu.com" rel="nofollow - - Adult Women Player Registrations & Queries: Visit https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/running-your-club/player-registration/adult-women" rel="nofollow - Adult Women Registration or email mailto:womensplayerregistration@rfu.com" rel="nofollow - - Age Grade Registrations & Queries: Visit https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/running-your-club/player-registration/age-grade-registration" rel="nofollow - Age Grade Registration or email mailto:AgeGradeRugby@rfu.com" rel="nofollow - - Media and Filming Enquiries: mailto:media@rfu.com" rel="nofollow - - Lost Property: mailto:LostProperty@rfu.com" rel="nofollow - LostProperty@rfu.com - Careers & Vacancies: https://www.englandrugby.com/about-rfu/careers-and-vacancies/casual-work" rel="nofollow - Current Vacancies & Casual Work - World Rugby Museum & Stadium Tours: Visit http://www.worldrugbymuseum.com/" rel="nofollow - World Rugby Museum mailto:museum@rfu.com" rel="nofollow - museum@rfu.com or call 020 8892 8877 - Privacy Policy & Personal Data: https://www.englandrugby.com/about-rfu/rfu-policies/privacy-policy" rel="nofollow - Privacy Policy - Stadium enquiries: Visit https://www.twickenhamstadium.com/" rel="nofollow - Twickenham Stadium or https://www.twickenhamstadium.com/contact" rel="nofollow - Contact or Call 020 3613 2013
Kind Regards, Rugby Football Union ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 10:11
|
I have followed the advice kindly sent to me by the RFU and I have sent another email to the RFU's Media department as follows: .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Dear Sirs, Please see the email below which I sent to the RFU earlier this morning. I have received an email back from the RFU suggesting I contact one of many RFU departments listed in that email. The issue is that the RFU has made a pretty crass mistake as set out in my initial email below and I hope someone from the Media department of the RFU can look into it and correct it. I am sure the players involved and their family and friends would appreciate your prompt attention to this. Regards ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 10:13
|
[QUOTE=Big Eddie] Wow that was quick. Got a reply back from the RFU, reproduced in full below.............. but I don't think this prompt reply helps much. ................................................................................................................................................ About as much use as a one legged man in a a**e kicking competition! Does it not say everything about the current state of the RFU that you appear not to be able to talk to anyone? |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 10:19
|
A few minutes ago the RFU website was updated with a picture of the peerless Gavin Roberts and the removal of Ben Jones. I will give the RFU credit for correcting their error....................to be honest I didn't think they would be bothered to attend to this. ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 10:20
|
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 10:41
Maybe, just maybe they've heard about Big Eddie & Clive Norling giving them serious grief on social media ..... |
Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 11:19
|
They're a bit like my bank, especially the music. ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 11:32
|
I received a personal reply from someone at the RFU who advised me of the circumatances of the RFU's honest mistake....I replied as follows: M*****, I didn't think it was a deliberate mistake! You may not understand how frustrated what is called the 'Community Game' gets when it makes similar honest mistakes and gets dumped on by the RFU from a great height including points deductions, loss of travel subsidies and costs of attending RFU tribunals (where QC's represent the RFU), not to mention the stress caused to honest hard working and unpaid club volunteers who are fundamental to rugby in England. The RFU's hypocrisy in the treatment of Yorkshire Carnegie compared to its treatment of National 1 team Rams and the RFU's latest cynical handling in cuts in Championship funding has stoked significant anti RFU sentiment. The Community Game is 99% of rugby in England yet the RFU allocates virtually all its resources to the Premiership, the Elite game and itself. Personally I am sure the level of disatisfaction with the RFU from right across the 'Community Game' is now reaching a tipping point in England. M*****, I am very sure none of the above is your fault but because it is a rare occasion when I get to communicate directly with someone from the RFU. I thought it appropriate to let you know the massive strength of anti RFU feeling that now exists within 'Community Rugby' which is the RFU's patronising term for rugby outside the Professional Game. In the same way that you are not personally responsible for the disconnected and patronising culture within the RFU my views are my own and they are not necessarily those of Caldy RFC which is the team I support. Yours Sincerely ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Thunderbird
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 11:53
|
Nice Big E .
|
Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 13:42
|
Spot on BE well done. I'm guessing ALL of the departments listed have a manager ( and support team?) which merely exacerbates the financial situation as none of these will be the "unpaid volunteers BE refers to. Probably be advertising for a pandemic specialist next - and I'm not trivialising the current worldwide problem! |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 17:08
I hope you signed it "Big Eddie"!  ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 17:12
I didn't on the grounds that an RFU Council member told me last year that the RFU knew who Big Eddie was! ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 20:00
We know where you live (so we can send you a case of Cristal 2008 should Caldy get promotion)  ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: BeeBumble
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 23:38
|
I can give you his latest address 🤠------------- Me? I'm just buzzin' around! |
Posted By: BeeBumble
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 23:42
|
For what it's worth, the stats shown all appear to be wrong - what's the point in recognising achievement if you can't document the achievement correctly 😎 https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/grassroots-teams-of-february-announced" rel="nofollow - https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/grassroots-teams-of-february-announced ------------- Me? I'm just buzzin' around! |
Posted By: touchlineexpert
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 00:14
|
Are you okay mate? Seems like a lot of effort to go through for a wrong picture, particularly as other websites such as BBC or other papers regularly get wrong players in photos attached to news stories. I'd suggest you are better off sitting down with your local CRC or RDO and explain to them how they think they could better be supporting the grassroots game in your area? From my experience with them they are always keen to hear the opinions of clubs and much easier to contact than anyone 'HQ' based?? |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 07:48
Touchlineexpert, You quote inaccurate reporting by the BBC and other News outlets and websites as some kind of mitigation regarding the RFU's careless attitude. The difference is in the name. The Rugby Football Union is the governing body of our sport and it was promoting the RFU's Player of the Month...........it wasn't reporting.... it was announcing! Your view Are you okay mate? Seems like a lot of effort to go through for a wrong picture, is possibly not shared by the player in question Gavin Roberts or his family, friends and Caldy supporters. The reason I put some effort into this was to highlight the attitude the RFU clearly has towards the 2,000+ clubs in England who the RFU considers to be one big inconvenience to the real job of spending £10's of millions for the benefit of 12 commercial organisations which could not survive on their own without massive RFU hand outs.
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Bruce Edgar
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 08:14
| Big Eddie should get his own club in order first. |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 08:18
|
Touchline, I need to also express my absolute admiration for one of the best centres in UK rugby, the peerless Welsh Wizard, Gavin Roberts. He is Caldy's record points scorer despite not having the kicking duties for some 6 or 7 years as this was delegated firstly to Simon Mason and then Richard Vasey. Gavin Roberts isn't the biggest but he is a quite brilliant defensive centre, has electric acceleration and is one of the most balanced runners I have ever had the joy to watch. He could and probably should have been a full time professional player but he came to rugby late (as a 20 year old) and accordingly was not in the system. In Caldy's level 4 play off against Richmond some 8 or 9 years ago the ex England international Simon Halliday considered Gavin Roberts' all round performance to be the finest display by a centre he had ever seen at any level, and considered Gavin Roberts to be as good as any player in the Premiership. Gavin Roberts has played virtually all his senior rugby at Caldy.........his loyalty and sheer brilliance deserve wider recognition. That is why I was so offended by the RFU's crass mistake in putting up a picture of the wrong Caldy player. I know Gavin Roberts isn't Manu Tuilagi and he doesn't play in the Premiership but it really matters to me (and I suspect a lot of other people) that the RFU got this right. If all the RFU want to do for 'Community Players' is give them a pat on the back, they should as a minimum pat the right player on the back. I hope that helps to explain my frustration and effort to get the RFU's 'honest mistake' corrected.
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: tulip
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 08:23
What a stupid comment without backing it up with facts. However I see you don't contribute a lot to Rolling Maul Perhaps an employee of RFU
|
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 09:33
|
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 11:05
|
Thank you for your support Clive Norling. The massive imbalance between the RFU's support for the 1% of the game compared to the remaining 99% is a matter of great significance for all of us. We should highlight this imbalance at every opportunity ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Bruce Edgar
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 15:56
Amazing how the RFU and their employees get blamed for everything that's going wrong with rugby.
|
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 16:26
|
Just as a point of comparison - apparently the ECB (and every other board) signed off on the Women's T20 playing conditions without thinking that maybe having a reserve day for the semi finals would be a good thing. As ourwomen lost to SA - and they won all their matches apart from a no result - we can second in our group. We played India and of course it was rained off. India go through on better playing record. Now the England players are crying foul. The rules must be changed. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 16:57
There are a lot of very fine people working at the RFU and I wouldn't want to denigrate them for doing the job that has been asked of them by their senior management. Someone asked me today what most upsets me about the RFU. It was an easy question to answer. The RFU is owned by its clubs.............all 2,000+ of them. However the RFU does not appear to discharge its obligations and responsibilities fairly across its constituent base because almost its entire focus is on the Professional game which consists of 12 clubs and the international elite. When and how did its duty to act for all get changed into a focus very firmly towards the Professional and elite game. The RFU is now a feral organisation that has lost sight of what it should be about. Some years ago I put this point in person to a former President of the RFU. He didn't vacillate or demure he simply said "You are right" The RFU is like a PLC with thousands of small individual shareholders and 12 larger institutional shareholders who collectively only account for a couple of per cent in voting terms. However because this block of institutional shareholders is represented by a powerful broker and they always vote and have the ear of senior management they have a vastly disproportionate influence over the organisation. In PLC terms someone would organise the small retail shareholders so they spoke with one effective voice. This should be the Constituent Bodies in the case of English Rugby. Why have they not been effective in acting for their constituents? ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 18:51
|
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 18:58
Like Eddie, I don't blame ALL the employees ... some yes but not all, it is only a hunch and I only have anecdotal evidence but there are some that care not a jot about rugby in this country, they're there just to pick up a pay cheque and potentially use the RFU as a stepping stone to something better .... No, I blame in the main, the gentlemen & ladies who have made up the Management Board and allowed CEO's and FD's to make a right horlicks of the finances and not held them to account ... And added to that, the Council who instead of providing the counter argument, appear to have ceded all power to a group of between 10/12 people .... I'm happy if you can provide evidence to the contrary to change my opinion publicly on this forum. |
Posted By: Thunderbird
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 09:39
| Re the council, they will never all agree as they have different agendas. The RAF,Navy, Army , universities, referees and others, all have representives if I am not mistaken. They have no issue with funding cuts at level 3 and below. The only time they all agreed ,was when it was suggested they had their freebies reduced |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 10:04
No way, what a surprise that is ..... 
|
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 10:05
The RFU's archaic and disparate structure cedes total power to the Senior Management of the RFU. Member clubs will only ever regain control if they organise themselves and communicate effectively between each other. Without unity of purpose between what is patronisingly called 'Community Clubs' the well organised and financially powerful Premier League clubs will continue to control the RFU. The only hope that the Community Clubs have is if Senior RFU Management decide to manage the organisation for the benefit of all and not just a very few. ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 10:15
Eddie but who out there has time to try and coordinate the amount of clubs necessary to force an EGM? |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 10:50
|
Clive, that is almost certainly the problem. Who has the time and who has the inclination and the skill set to do it. Political organisations such as the RFU can easily be manipulated by a small ideological or otherwise self interested group. In Liverpool in the 80's Derek Hatton and a small group took over Liverpool Council. Apathy and a lack of appetite by anyone to oppose them made it easy. The Labour Party in the 90s was hijacked by 'New Labour' The Labour Party more recently has been hijacked by 'Momentum' The RFU's structure is so much easier to hijack by a small self interested group, because the Constituent Bodies who should be keeping RFU Senior Management in check are themselves generally run by self perpetuating coteries. My belief is that the principal activity of Senior Management in the RFU is probably managing the politics to keep themselves in power, rather than working for the good of its member clubs. I have seen it all before in large organisations and without activist shareholders to keep them in check Senior Management always drift towards self interest. Such a culture becomes ingrained in organisations...............the RFU exhibits the worst of such symptoms I would say that when such poor cultures are ingrained in an organisation the only way it can generally be changed is through radical action. Telecoms companies are often beset by such politics. One very large European Telecoms appointed a new CEO to change the culture. He tried and failed because the power base beneath him obsfucated and resisted change, often very subtly but very successfully. Bill Sweeney has come into the RFU as CEO with I am sure very good intentions. Will he be able to make the radical changes the RFU needs or will he end up failing or even worse going native? ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: One For The Ditch
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 11:15
|
Posted By: One For The Ditch
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 11:16
| Am I not right in saying that with the backing of 100 Clubs an EGM can be called??? |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 13:06
Spot on .... |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 13:08
I am not sure but I have seen that quoted many times. If it is correct and I presume it is, it will still take a lot of organisation and a unity of purpose for the 100+ clubs to come together and agree to a specific set of resolutions they want enacted. It is far easier for the PRL to agree amongst the 12 Premiership Clubs what their agenda should be and go and have a quiet chat to RFU Senior Management than it is for a 100 + clubs to coalesce around some specific resolutions and then carry the vote at an EGM. However, despite the difficulties I think it does need to happen.
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 13:08
|
While I agree with many of the points made against the RFU here, I certainly wouldn't be making any political analogies by talking about Derek Hatton or the Labour Party. If I'm not mistaken, bleeding organisations dry for short term profit made by a few - plus privatisation, selfishness and greed generally - is much more in line with current Conservative ideology. In that light, perhaps we really shouldn't be too surprised by current events at Twickenham - the CVC takeover and the apparent focus on the top end making a profit. When economic growth and that terrible word "profit" are a society's main driver - as has been the seen in the USA for decades and is also unfortunately now the case in Toryland - bad things happen. Quite often very bad things - and it's always the little people who pay the price. Also, claiming that the Labour Party has been hijacked or taken over by Momentum is simply nonsense, and whatever one thinks of Jeremy Corbyn he was democratically elected by a massive majority of party members. Twice. There was nothing underhand or undemocratic about it. But this is not a political forum so we should all desist from any analogies here and stick to rugby.
|
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 13:13
Potentially the best CEO the RFU have had in recent times was John Steele, a rugby man through and through, he started out to re vamp the organisation and guess what, the suits/blazers/Council got rid of him because they probably didn't like the way the wind was going to blow ... not only did they get rid of him, to my knowledge, he has never uttered a word about his time with the company ....so just imagine how large that NDA agreement was! We'll never know how good or bad he would have been but from my sources at the time i.e. employees in the rugby department, he was a breath of fresh air ... |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 13:15
Fair point. I wasn't really wanting to make a political statement just pointing out how easy it can be for a small focussed group to carry an inordinate and unintended amount of power in a large and supposedly democratic organisation. In America Trump and his cronies have pretty much full control of the Republican party and in the UK Dominic Cummings seems to wield a very disproportionate amount of influence in the Government. My point wasn't about politics, it was just to point out how a small number of motivated people can control the agendas of large supposedly democratic organisations ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 13:17
|
John Steele Former RFU chief executive For five years John Steele was the chief executive of UK Sport, which meant mediating between the government, the sports councils of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and the myriad sports overseen by them all. Quite a few competing interests to deal with, quite a few arguments to resolve. Surely, after that, he could handle any collection of unreasonable egos. But he reckoned without the RFU. Steele's appointment as the RFU's chief executive in June last year was welcomed by all as a "rugby" appointment. After the financial achievements of the businessman who preceded him, Francis Baron, now was the time for a man who knew his rugby to build on the legacy. When he assumed his role in September, the positive noises intensified and reached a climax when he announced in January his plans for restructuring the RFU, whereby there would be three out of six heads of department directly concerned with rugby, as opposed to the pre-existing configuration of two out of eight. Rugby was back on the agenda. That, they said, was because Steele's pedigree in the game is sound. He played fly-half for Northampton for seven years from 1988, scoring more than 1,500 points, the club record before Paul Grayson came along. His involvement as a player with England, though, went no higher than A-team level – maybe that is why he was so keen on his fateful change to the performance director's job description. After a stint as director of rugby at London Scottish, he won the Heineken Cup in 2000 as the Saints' director of rugby and became chief executive of UK Sport in 2005. His successful career seemed to be extending to his role at the RFU, where he still enjoys widespread support. Unfortunately a minority of influential figures have withdrawn theirs. |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 13:20
|
John Steele has left his role as the chief executive of the Rugby Football Union. Here are the key dates in his time at Twickenham: June 2010: Steele is announced as the successor to Francis Baron as the RFU chief executive. The appointment of the former Northampton and England A fly-half is hailed as a progressive move. 1 December 2010: Steele sends a letter to England squad members, warning them that they risk missing out on selection if they choose to play outside of the country. The news does not prevent the fly-half Jonny Wilkinson signing a new two-year deal with Toulon, later the same month. 6 January 2011: Steele announces a radical organisational restructuring of the RFU, which includes the establishment of a new rugby department split into three sections: performance, operations and development. Rob Andrew's role as elite rugby director will be scrapped, leading many to name the World Cup-winning coach Sir Clive Woodward as the favourite for the performance role. 25 March: Andrew, who was encouraged to apply for the operations role, is successful in his application. The RFU also reveals that Steve Grainger will become its rugby development officer. The naming of the performance director is delayed, as some candidates – believed to included major international coaches, with Eddie Jones and Nick Mallett among the names linked – are unable to attend interviews due to "rugby commitments". 10 May: The RFU reveals changes to the job specification for the performance director role, removing any involvement with the senior England side. The job now only extends as far as the England Saxons, with the major focus being to help nurture talent before the 2015 World Cup, which will be held in England. Many observers see the move as a means of ruling Woodward out of the running. 12 May: RFU performs a rapid u-turn as the board reconvenes to reverse the decision to alter the performance director job specification, which returns to its original form. 13 May: The RFU chairman, Martyn Thomas, and Steele hold a meeting at Twickenham. The pair send a joint note to RFU council members, reiterating support for Steele's planned reforms. 19 May: Woodward rules himself out of the running for the job and commits himself to his role at the British Olympic Association. 24 May: RFU board, without Steele, launches an investigation into the recruitment process. 10 June: Steele leaves his role with the RFU, following an emergency board meeting. |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 13:23
|
It will be interesting to see what kind of CEO Bill Sweeney is. Is he a radical reformer or a 'Don't Rock the Boat' kind of guy. I don't know him but I understand that he is coming to Caldy shortly so I may have the opportunity to find out.....................that is if the club let me in the clubhouse that weekend! ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 13:24
| And I agree with you totally Big Eddie. Basically, it's all about what's called by psycholgists the Law of Minorities. A small minority of motivated individuals have always been able to influence things way beyond what you'd expect. The indifference of the masses is one of the main causes. It's interesting stuff but again not really for here. One thing I do know is that organising a large and diverse group of people, many with their own agendas, is a really, really tough and time consuming task. Good luck if you can manage it though! |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 13:28
It won't be me this year FC I am too busy with my business interests and being Welsh I may not be the ideal candidate to perform this feat. However when my business involvement subsides somewhat I would consider getting involved. ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 13:57
Eddie, you are hugely passionate about Caldy RFC and rugby in general below Level 2, you are an ideal candidate in my eyes ... like you too, business gets in the way for me .... and therein probably lies the knub of the problem, activists are often tied up on other projects ... Right anyone out there, passionate about lower level rugby, doesn't need to work, agrees with Big Eddie and Clive Norling that the RFU are making a mess of running the game and has time to get 100 clubs coordinated to get their signatures and force an EGM, shouldn't be that difficult ... 
|
Posted By: touchlineexpert
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 13:57
|
Eddie, What is it exactly you think the RFU should be doing to support grassroots clubs in your neck of the woods? |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 14:42
1) Not cutting back on travel expenses, in fact, paying a far greater percentage than they are now, to EVERY club who is in a league at whatever level 2) Not asking clubs to pay for match officials 3) Spending money on training match officials 4) Building the 100 x 4G pitches THEY PROMISED after RWC 2015 5) Reducing the cost of Test match tickets 6) Increasing the test match ticket allowance to clubs 7) Getting a website that works and doesn't need a degree in IT to use when you're a volunteer 8) Not playing all England games at Twickenham, make the game accessible to everyone, wherever they are in the country 9) Organising a proper 2nd team league, instead of leaving it up to the clubs 10) Re employ all those RDO's that they sacked, so as they can get back out in the field, spread the game and get more participation, instead again of leaving it to the clubs ... That is off the top of my head without even thinking deeply about it, Big Eddie though might have totally different views .... 
|
Posted By: pen 15
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 14:45
|
I should think you will be sitting next to him,might put him off his pot noodle though
------------- is it stours year yet |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 14:56
I bet he is a "yes" man .... |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 14:57
|
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 15:36
Clive I am with you on all of those and I will add a few more: 11) Do not overburden hard working unpaid club volunteers with excessive bureacracy 12) Do not stress the h**l out of hard working unpaid club volunteers by being jobsworth's and punishing their club for minor administrative mistakes 13) Do not patronise the clubs who produce nearly all the players of tomorrow by awarding them just a plaque when they produce an England International player give them some tangible benefit 14) Recognise who actually you owe a duty of care and responsibility to (its isn't just the 12 Premiership clubs) 15) Uphold your own publicly stated values 16) Be transparent in all your dealings 17) Slim down your organisation 18) Get your culture back to where it should be 19) Cut out the Bullsh*t 20) Stop lecturing to rugby clubs about living within their means etc when you are not able to do this yourselves and neither are most of the Premiership clubs ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 15:46
Yes but other than that Clive and Eddie they are doing a good job
|
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 15:55
|
Posted By: Wigwam
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 16:05
|
Crikey !!! If it’s as bad as all that I don’t think I’ll bother going to another game ------------- Pace Power Perfection |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 16:09
|
Clearly Touchline Expert struggles to understand why I am just a touch more than vexed by the RFU, and believes it is somehow related to something at Caldy or something the RFU is neglecting to do in the North West. It is none of those things. It is all about what I perceive as an arrogant and patronising organisation that lost touch with its constituents a long time ago. Outside of the current financial mismanagement and political chicanery I will provide three instances where any respect I had for the RFU disappeared. 1. Many years ago my son was playing for Cheshire at Twickenham against Middlesex. The two counties knocked lumps out of each other and after a high quality game Cheshire finally won through. The Twickenham announcer described the scene as the Cheshire players climbed the steps to receive the trophy and with unbelievable patronising arrogance explained to the crowd and the players that these were the very steps that England International players and Premiership players climbed to receive their trophies. Wow! Imagine how excited that made 40 players (some of whom had previously played International rugby and one of them Chris Sheasby with distinction for England). The fool at Twickenham clearly thought that the County players were playing a different game and weren't real rugby players at all............ After such insulting commentary I went exploring Twickenham with a friend (who was a Middlesex supporter) to make our displeasure known to someone. As we wandered through Twickenham's inner sanctums we came across a large and luxurious room overlooking the pitch. In there were many representatives from the Constituent Bodies being waited upon as they sat in their leather wing back chairs drinking at the RFU's pleasure whilst they took in the game. A lot became clear to me that day. 2. Attending a pre match lunch at Hudderfsield I sat next to a former RFU President. He was hospitable and entertaining and he disclosed to me that he was at Huddersfield to give them a wooden plaque for producing England player Luther Burrell. I was incredulous, was there no financial acknowledgement to help that fine club develop further. Nope just a wooden plaque............he was embarrassed and clearly very unhappy with what was going on at the RFU. He pretty much agreed with everythings I said. 3. The nail in the coffin. The hugely well remunerated Ian Ritchie (circa £750k a year for being CEO of a monopoly business!) strikes a shocking financial deal with Premiership Rugby which pretty much bankrupts the RFU and then he leaves to become.............the Chairman of Premiership Rugby! I hope that is enough of an explanation for you Touchline Expert
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 17:27
| It's almost like a government minister being involved in awarding huge contracts to a company - let's say in the area of defence - and then upon stepping down from parliament taking up a ridiculously well paid 'directorship' at exactly the same defence contractor. Now that's never happened before has it. As I've said previously with the example that's currently being set from the top it's no wonder that things are as they are at Twickers. |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 17:52
|
Posted By: Camp Freddie
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 19:29
|
The last CEO who was the FD before he was promoted resigned quite quickly and then we found out we were in a bit of a pickle. Not many questions asked were there ................? ------------- The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 19:35
No, because the people who gave him the FD job and then promoted him are still at the company, then serious questions would be asked of them! |
Posted By: BeeBumble
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 11:52
He doesn't look - either literally or figuratively - like a "yes" man to me, but he is still an appointee and you have to wonder why he was taken on if he was likely to challenge whoever appointed him. https://www.englandrugby.com/about-rfu/structure-of-the-rfu/executive-directors/bill-sweeney" rel="nofollow - https://www.englandrugby.com/about-rfu/structure-of-the-rfu/executive-directors/bill-sweeney I'll be interested to hear what he has to say both at Caldy and more generally and, most importantly, get some idea of how he listens and what he understands of the 10 or so playing levels in the hierarchy which have become collectively identified completely wrongly as the "grass roots" 😢 Personally, I'd love to get him and his colleagues to accept that the present organisational tree is the wrong way up and it is the RFU and constituent bodies themselves which should be providing the support associated with a tree's roots with the present "lower levels" being recognised and valued for what they really are - the branches and twigs at which all new growth starts 😎
------------- Me? I'm just buzzin' around! |
Posted By: Old Hooker
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 14:40
Absolute power Lovelys absolutley  ------------- another one against the head |
Posted By: Old Hooker
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 14:42
|
should read "Lovelys" not sure what happened there, bit like the RFU ------------- another one against the head |
Posted By: Old Hooker
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 14:44
weird will not let me type what I want, I guess you know the saying  ------------- another one against the head |
Posted By: touchlineexpert
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2020 at 18:23
|
youve got yourself annoyed by a stadium announcer... you can do better than that!And then a group having a meal with some wine..grow up! What would be best to give a club that produce an england player? From my own club the exposure of our first international has been mad, during the rwc we averaged 8 new players at training each week!! Youre third point i will give you, thats a shocker and questions need to be answered. congrats to caldy on their promotion, hope they get the support you think they are merited next year.. |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2020 at 21:58
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: L33
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 11:28
|
A thoughts on the below
|
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 11:35
|
L33 while I tend to agree with you on most points. On travel, while no other sport does this, Rugby is in a unique situation. We are a minority sport, so there is significant travel (especially in the women's and girls' game). But we have the income stream from the internationals that EnglandHockey or BBA would give an arm and a leg for. So we could significantly subsidise travel for all organised matches. Which would reduce one of the complaints we have at mid levels. That does nto mean we should not look at the league structure to reduce travel. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 12:20
|
L33 makes some relevant points but my issue with the RFU is about what I see as a huge misalignment between the RFU's direction of travel since professionalism and its constitutional responsibilites. Company's are governement by their Memorandum and Articles of Association. In law their primary responsibilities are to their shareholders, employees and creditors. Depending on circumstances how management discharge their responsibilities betwwen theses three groups can change. When a Company is in financial difficulties the interests of Creditors and Employees should have primacy over the interests of Shareholders. If at such times Company Directors put the interests of Shareholders above the interests of Creditors they risk becoming personally liable if the Company tips into insolvency. When shareholders all hold the same class of shares their interests are (or should be the same). The Company's management cannot favour one Ordinary shareholder over another. They all have to be treated equally. I would be interested to know how and why the RFU feel it is appropriate and acceptable to treat the Premiership clubs differently to the rest of the rugby clubs in England. Is there something in the RFU's constitution that requires or allows this to happen?
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 21:20
| Update on what an England player receives if picked in the match day 23 for a Test match ......... £25k and they get that whether they play 80 minutes or 8 seconds .... |
Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 22:00
| .....or get yellow carded shortly after coming on! |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 22:00
1) The RFU set up the leagues, not the clubs, by definition, the RFU should contribute, I'm sure Darlington Mowden Park who spend £70k a year on travel would not agree with your sentiment 4) You miss my point re the AGP pitches, they DO NOT HAVE ANY MONEY left, so your £75 million (it was actually going to cost £50 million) being better spent and having more of an impact is just not going to happen, that is my point about the mis management and lying to junior clubs about what the RFU were going to do for them 5) Twickenham would sell out if the Dagenham Girls Piper Band played rugby against anyone from another country, the point is the average grass roots supporter is being priced out in favour of the prawn sandwich corporate client who knows absolutely nothing about rugby apart from some guy called Johnny Wilkinson is playing fly half for Engalnd ..... irony in case you misssed it 6) So we sacked all the RDO's, so you as a club go and get more players and do our job for us and we'll reward you, yes your right but that favours clubs in high density population areas, how do Furness RFC get all these extra players? Think that is called discrimination .... 8) Lost revenue by moving games around the country? I suppose you have a point but since the RFU couldn't get an alcoholic p**sed in a brewery, that argument falls on it's face somewhat ... if any of them up there had a half decent business brain, the game would not be in the state it is at the moment 9)"Move with the times" not sure that would stand up in a court of law! .... Yes you're right a survey has gone out but as ever with the RFU, the questions have been loaded so as they get the replies they want so as they can then justify their actions afterwards I note that you've not answered either questions 7 or 10, so you're in agreement with me that GMS is not fit for purpose and all the RDO's should not have been sacked .... |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 22:25
So your club recruited an additional 56 players? Your club now runs an additional 3/4 teams, fantastic. You should contact the RFU immediately, you are so bucking the national trend, they will want to talk to you, so as they can roll out the programme around the country ... Er, it happened over 2 years ago, as most people in rugby know, so there are no questions that are going to be asked .... |
Posted By: BeeBumble
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2020 at 23:35
|
So, touchline, who and where is IRFC 🤔 ------------- Me? I'm just buzzin' around! |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 07:15
|
Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 08:27
I am going with Ivybridge ------------- Cauliflower ear. |
Posted By: Cannon
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 08:39
------------- Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!! |
Posted By: Redted
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 08:57
| Ilfracombe? |
Posted By: Deva Delinquent
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 09:26
| I'm going for Ilkley. |
Posted By: greeneyed
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 11:16
| It's Iona for me. |
Posted By: Puli.
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 12:19
|
All wrong .... it’s Istanbul (suits a turkey) ------------- If Rugby is the game they play in Heaven ..... Why does it hurt like Hell when you retire? |
Posted By: Camp Freddie
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 13:58
|
9)"Move with the times" not sure that would stand up in a court of law!
.... Yes you're right a survey has gone out but as ever with the RFU,
the questions have been loaded so as they get the replies they want so
as they can then justify their actions afterwards. Well said CN. I recall a question on the survey about whether you wanted 2nd XV teams to enter the RFU Leagues at Level 8 or above. There was no way of answering "I don't want 2nd XV teams in RFU Leagues". So when they do their stats it will show as a popular move. They do this type of thing regularly with their surveys. ------------- The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 14:56
|
When I have some time I am going to do an analysis of the RFU's financial position as disclosed by their latest accounts. Most may think this is an unnecessary exercise but the RFU's own financial reports are probably the best source of information as an indicator for what is going on or possibly more likely what is going wrong. The financial small print in the back of a glossy annual report is generally more illuminating than the spin and PR at the front of the report. Often the detail in financial accounts are not transparent to those not used to analysing them. ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 16:06
|
Posted By: L33
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 20:07
|
Done
|