Alun Wyn Jones
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Topic: Alun Wyn Jones
Posted By: Sid James
Subject: Alun Wyn Jones
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 10:33
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Alun Wyn Jones - Great player, great captain and leader, must be one of the best 2nd rows to play for Wales & the Lions. However, is it me or is Alun becoming a bit of a sad old moaner? I ask for 2 reasons: a) I know Alun is the Captain but, after every single decision the ref makes the ref has to explain himself to Alun. Once the ref has satisfied Alun for the umpteenth time, or not, Alun walks backwards with that look of disbelief on his face or, with that smile that says I am tired of your incompetence but I will live with it. He must add 10mins to the game with his persistent enquiries to the ref. and, b) IMO, Alun appears to have really let himself down with his complaints about a 'tweak' from Joe Marler. The whole situation is now out of hand, courtesy of the media (whats new!) but it was 'grumpy' Alun who has deliberately fuelled the situation. Alun's inability to accept a playful 'tweak' (and it was a tweak rather than the much reported 'grab') may now cost Marler the rest of his season. I just hope Alun is happy with that and doesn't want Marler dragging through the streets and pilloried. Would we have seen the same fuss if Wales had won? I think not. p.s. Gareth Thomas's comment on the matter was 'priceless'. Thankfully, we still have a Wales captain with a sense of humour. ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Replies:
Posted By: GreenThrough&Through
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 11:36
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In response to your points: a. I agree though it's not just him that does it. IMO, the referees stance should be: "If you don't understand my decision then the captain and/or the penalised player can politely ask me to explain why i've given it. If you don't like the explanation, or don't like the decision, then tough; i'm the referee and i'll call what i see". b. Whilst it was funny, Marler should and likely will get a ban. Reason being that there will have been thousands of kids who've watched it and without a ban, could see this as acceptable behaviour. As a coach in a junior setup, i don't want to spend my time having to discipline kids for inappropriate contact.
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Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 12:05
GTT, I agree with a) but with regard to b) lets be fair, the kids would have had no idea of what had happened had Jones and the media not brought it to the attention of everyone. Which is the point I was making. It is the easy way out, to hide behind the rules, point to the Kids and take the moral high ground. Can we not just explain it away as incorrect but naughty/silly/playful banter which I doubt would Lovely anyone's juniors. Do we need to provide a telephone number with the TV highlights, just in case anyone is effected by the contents of the match? ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
GreenThrough&Through wrote:Posted By: GreenThrough&Through
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 12:26
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I know where you're coming from and it has been blown up in the media, unfortunately it's the world we live in. There is a fine line between 'banter'/craic/gentle wind-up (whatever word you choose to use) and unacceptable behaviour. Personally, i don't think i'd be happy with another player copping hold of my bits, no matter how subtlety or innocent/playful they thought they were being. Ideally, yes, as a parent you'd explain to your child that it's not the done thing and not to copy it.
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Posted By: Count Ford
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 13:00
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I have a different view on this.
In years gone by JM would have had a deserved smack round the face and that would have been the end of it. These days if AWJ had done that he would be sent off and put his team at a disadvantage, also potentially would have led to a bigger fracas and become even more serious for Marler. Worse things happen on a rugby pitch...but it was an unbelievably stupid thing to do in such a high profile game. I fully agree on the constant appealing. Whatever happened to matching teams back 10 metres??
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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 13:12
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I'm not sure how I feel about the Marler incident. I'm certainly not in the sexual assault/ #metoo/ throw-away-the-key camp, and I'm not even sure that he should be charged with 'grabbing, twisting or squeezing' as it was more of a fondle. Never thought I'd type any of those words on an internet forum. Not this one, anyway... But I can see that Marler thought he was being funny, although I can also see why AWJ wasn't amused by the incident. Even in his press conference afterwards, he really didn't seem to know how to explain what had happened - he was still completely bemused by it two hours later - and I find it strange that he's getting grief for that. If one of my mates walked into the pub and rubbed my crotch as a form of greeting I think I'd find that completely bizarre behaviour, so why Marler thinks it's acceptable in front of a TV audience of millions is beyond me. Maybe the Six Nations should be behind a paywall after all so our children can't be exposed to this filth
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Posted By: GreenThrough&Through
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 14:09
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To clarify, im not in the throw-away-the-key-camp either. Whilst it was funny, and that was probably Marlers intention, it can't go unpunished. Doing so is effectively a green light to other players (at all levels) to try the same. God help the referees if that were to happen.
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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 14:39
| It's OK GT&T, I wasn't referring to you specifically - but some of the comments I've seen on social media and in the comments sections of various news sites have been bordering on hysteria. |
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 16:45
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I agree MW-J, it was a bizarre thing to do. Silly but not malicious. I too want to avoid the hysteria that follows the media latching on to anything these days, which is why I feel that had Jones simply dismissed the incident and Marler as ridiculous, the media would have had nowhere to go with it. But, Jones did not dismiss it and we are now faced with mountains of unecessary scrutiny by the press, Disciplinary Committees and everyone jumping on the moral high ground. What a waste of everyone's time. ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 16:59
 ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 17:11
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If you did that in any other context you'd be in real trouble. In certain contexts you might get knifed. It was deliberate and being over 18, Marler deserves to take the consequences. What would be the attitude in women's rugby if another player fondled someone's breasts? Hell to pay I would think. A rugby match is not a licence for Indecent Assault. ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: GWJ
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 17:31
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Absolutely correct. Whilst I am getting fed up with AWJ (and many others) continually harping on about decisions that go against them, what Marler did was inexcusable. It wouldn't have mattered whether AWJ had kept quiet, the matter would have been picked up post-match and a citing was inevitable. Marler has a history of acting like a tool and knew exactly what he was doing. What's worse is that there was no need to do what he did. He now has to accept the consequences which will probably be a ban or a fine at best. And rather than be remembered as a decent prop, he'll probably be remembered as the player who fondled another player during a match. If I had done that in my day job I would have been suspended immediately, disciplined (and probably sacked) and would most likely have to face a sexual assault charge in Court.
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Posted By: BP Youth
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 17:46
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I think I would rather have received Joe Marler's "assault" than that meted out by Mohamed Haouas. it will be interesting to see who receives the most severe punishment. Gareth Thomas' re-action had it spot on, in my opinion ------------- It's only a game |
Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 17:58
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My old school in Cape Town has recently had a scandal in that an extremely attractive female schoolteacher has had at least four relationships with hunky 18 year old water polo players. The reaction has ranged from 'lucky sods' to 'disgraceful' She's resigned and lost her career. Also a very foolish person. The reactions to Marler's foolery show a similar variation, but he must know he plays with fire. ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: tulip
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 18:01
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It was the sort of thing you did in practice matches at school to wind your mates up. I think if Wales were in control of the game Jones might have laughed it off but at that stage a red or yellow card would have come in handy. They did play as team mates on the 2017 Lions Tour
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Posted By: acro prop
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 18:59
| This all come to light with a question from a English reporter asking AWJ about the incident. His answer was dumbing down of the actual offence but more to do with the official’s missing it even calling Marlor a great guy. Maybe if it wasn’t mentioned we wouldn’t be having the over reaction in the media. Every post match interview AWJ has given i always thought his answers have been in the spirit of the game we all love. |
Posted By: GWJ
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 19:05
But it wasn't in a practice match at school ... it was during a major international match played out in front of 80,000 people and with millions, including kids, watching on live TV. To put it into context, a male pensioner ended up in our local Court recently having groped the female paramedic who had been called to assist him. The pensioner thought he was having just a bit of fun and told her that 'you've got to have a laugh'. He wasn't laughing when he ended up being convicted of sexual assault. Whether Marler thought it was 'just a bit of bants' or not, he should have realised that there would be consequences to his action. This could end very badly for him. PS I agree with your other 2 points but it doesn't change what happened!
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Posted By: Exiled in Mann
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 19:13
I always try and avoid the chat on ITV at half time so I did not watch but I understood that it was highlighted at half time which is when Gareth Thomas made his comment about not retiring if it had happened when he was still playing. It had therefore already been picked up by TV before AWJ had talked to any press. The act was not malicious but I believe was clearly intended to get a reaction out of AWJ, I nearly said rise rather than reaction, in the hope that AWJ would get carded. On that basis I believe Marler should get some sort of a ban as I am fed up with players trying to get opposition players to retaliate to something they have done in the hope/expectation that the other guy is the one the referee catches and who walks. On the same basis I would have yellow carded the Scottish 6 on Sunday as I thought it was him coming flying in when there was nothing really going on that kicked it all off.
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Posted By: Exiled in Mann
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 19:18
| Should have said I loved AWJ's initial responses when asked about it at the press conference as with a deadpan face he kept asking the reporter to elaborate on the question as the reporter was clearly very unsure how to describe where Joe Marler had touched him |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 19:21
Absolutely agree with this. I'd have done the same.
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 20:28
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Absurd that people think Marler's act being highlighted & eventually the subject of a citing had anything to do with AWJ. It was a stupid thing to do & would have been picked up regardless of the reaction by the 'fondlee' |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 21:58
both of you would make good TMO's!
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Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 22:22
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That's what I like about this forum, we get numerous responces ranging from Pappashanga's total over reaction (knifed!), the moral high ground (think of the kids!) to humour and a more reasoned realistic view.
Marler will probably recieve a ban, fuelled by the media and Alun's serious reaction. The concentration on the Marler incident has taken us away from the fact that Alun appears to becoming a grumpy old man. ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: geralltrugby
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2020 at 07:53
| Don’t see why you’re singling AWJ out. Farrel and EJ aren’t averse to questioning referees in fact Eddie accused the official of being on Wales side after the game. Marler behaves like an idiot and will hopefully be dealt with appropriately. If that had happened to me in my playing days I would not have been as calm as AWJ. |
Posted By: fatbear
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2020 at 08:28
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I have seen a picture that shows the French prop being gauged in the eyes by Haining, and he then punched the wrong guy... |
Posted By: knightandday
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2020 at 08:36
Because he couldn't see properly? ------------- Winning isn't everything, it just makes the beer taste better |
Posted By: Dad
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2020 at 09:50
Well last year my daughter had her bottom tweaked in a ruck and the player then blew a kiss at her when they got up - that was a U18 match and she did it to at least 2 other players as well.
They were just "whatever" - the girls are lot less sensitive about things like that than men it seems |
Posted By: Puli.
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2020 at 10:11
He is changing his name to Alun Whinging Jones .....Suits him 👍 ------------- If Rugby is the game they play in Heaven ..... Why does it hurt like Hell when you retire? |
Posted By: pen 15
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2020 at 10:27
------------- is it stours year yet |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2020 at 10:37
| If only we could think of a witty play on his name to reflect that fact that he's always whingeing... |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2020 at 10:38
Hang on , I've got it. Alun Wyn MOANS!
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Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2020 at 12:01
Yes, others moan and question the ref but, I singled out AWJ as he is in a class of his own. "Marler behaves like an idiot and will hopefully be dealt with appropriately" - what is your view of 'dealt with appropriately'? Publicly flogged? I assume that AWJ kept his calm out of professionalism and because he is captain of Wales, which you are not. ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2020 at 12:07
Well done that girl. She could probably teach a thing or two to our 'more serious', 'state the obvious' Forum members. ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2020 at 12:09
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Fondle (def): to touch gently and in a loving way [see also caress, pet] ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2020 at 12:27
A good description of Marler on Jones. Bearing in mind the entry level of 12 weeks is for an aggressive act, I think a 4 week ban, a severe warning and a fine donated to a charity of Thomas's choice would be a reasonable punishment Treat it for what it was! ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Friendly prop
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2020 at 13:31
Nah It's Alun Whinge owns ------------- "Animo concipere non possum quo palto hoc pervease exeat." |
Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2020 at 14:22
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I missed all this friendly byplay when I was playing rugby. My wife did ask me recently why the players are always cuddling each other. I'll direct her to some of these answers. ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: Count Ford
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2020 at 19:49
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Verdict on Marler has been released and it's a 10 week ban. It's about what I suspected was coming, but the few weeks mitigation for remorse seems somewhat lenient given his tweet. I'm sure many may see it as harsh, but he was very foolish to put himself in that position and there was little choice given the sentencing guidelines in the laws
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Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2020 at 23:41
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10 weeks for a playful tweak is pathetic. Media fuelled over reaction. What will they do when something serious happens?
Danny Care's comments in the BBC news report are correct, "I think anyone involved in rugby, things like that are seen as a joke. It's seen as a bit of banter. I don't see an awful lot wrong with it." Paul Gustard also hits the nail on the head regarding the media. Pivac has to support his captain and both can now stand tall on the moral high ground, safe in the knowledge that they have done something to protect our country's young men from having a sense of humour. On this basis, Haouas must get a life ban and three years in jail. He punched someone in the head. A dangerous physical assault! ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: Onion Hawk
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2020 at 23:58
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With all due respect, Sid moans about officiating, decisions and the officials on a weekly basis, I’m not entirely sure he is a good barometer for what is right and judicious here. Minimum ban for the offence is 12 weeks, maximum 208 weeks, he got 10. It was stupid and all to do with it being the Marler show than anything else. The game needs characters, I’m not sure it needs clowns.
Should the French lad have got more, probably. |
Posted By: grooveavenue13
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 08:46
| Well, dangerous for tackle in Marler's case. I cannot find any medical advice that calls testicle squeezing a minor action. Read about the cringeing potential of harming this sensitive body part.Not nice for the recipient! |
Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 09:27
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I hope that this ban will deter others. Rugby is controlled violence, not an excuse for activities which would land you in court in any other context. If Marler were to be charged with indecent assault, he'd be found guilty without doubt. I was involved in a case where a lad humorously knocked a lady's burka off. It led to a scrap with the husband and the lad was found guilty of assault. One person's humour is often another person's offence. ------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 11:30
| I think that AWJ handled this matter perfectly. Cannot understand how anyone thinks otherwise |
Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 12:10
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Yes he was dignified and low key. I expect he's ignored many provocations in his long career.
------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 12:35
| I think the issue is trying to explain to anyone why Marler receives a 10 week ban for an action with no malice attached whilst the French prop, who's action could have blinded/broke the eye socket of the Scots player, receives a 3 week ban. Anyone out there explain that to me pls? |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 13:18
The French prop should have received a minimum of 10 weeks, punching has almost been removed from the game (and rightly so) - it would appear that the punishment level hasn't changed from the time it was an every game occurrence. Law makers to blame not the disciplinary panel ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 14:17
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There's a picture floating about of Marler receiving a nipple tweak at the same time as his fondle. Had he been identifying as female the perpetrator would have hit a 10 week ban also.
------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 21:19
All very interesting but totally irrelevant as absolutely no one involved has suggested squeezing occurred. As for the ten week ban it is harsh for what Marler did but perfectly correct for his stupidity in doing it in my opinion.
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Posted By: Cannon
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 21:44
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I think AWJ has lost all credibility within the game, he’s turned on a teammate doing nothing more than having a joke! ------------- Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!! |
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2020 at 09:28
OH, If you were up to date this season you would have noticed a distinct decrease in my observations on match officials. This is due to a general improvement by some but by no means all. I believe Marler has been treated harshly. I may not be the 'barometer' you require but, Danny Care, Paul Gustard, Jonathan Davies and Will Carling all appear to agree with me, as do many others. Will they do?
------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 09:48
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Interesting article in BBC News re: Grabbing of genitals in rugby.
By interesting, I mean it was good to hear opinion and views from other rugby players. There are also a couple of ludicrous tweets from over reactive individuals who are probably hoarding toilet rolls and pasta. We had another chat about this in our rugby club yesterday. All there agreed that Marler did not 'grab' AWJ's genitals and the 10 week ban is very harsh. We agreed that this is what happens when the media get hold of something and our 'powers that be' over react. We all agreed that Marler had been silly and that a suitable punishment would be Marler donating his match fee to Testicular Cancer research. I call that common sense from some people who understand our game. ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 10:09
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Unfortunately, Syd, that kind of suitable bespoke 'punishment' is not one they can impose.
------------- pappashanga |
Posted By: stonehousealbion
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 00:01
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Load of grey areas here and the usual range of under/over-reaction. (Nowt wrong wi' that!) 1. I believe many womens' clubs have an informal protocol for declaring your sexual orientation on joining to contextualise certain types of physical contact. Surely three bum pinches in one game by a single player merits some kind of a word being had at some kind of level. 2. The sanctity of the male genitalia in sport is not absolute; witness the controlled ribaldry of pundits when some unfortunate gets struck in the lower abdominal area during a test match. 3. Close on 15 years ago, there was a player in Oz disciplined for serially inserting his finger where the sun don't shine during rucks. That's the far end of the spectrum, but everyone should be protected from that, right? 4. The commonplace "bum pat", is that a modern (ie professional) era thing? Would it have earned you a bunch of fives in the tongue cupboard in days gone by? You have to wonder whether Marler ened up thinking, "If I got 10 weeks for a fondle, maybe I should have squeeezed a bit harder..." ------------- Come cheer up, my lads - 'tis to glory we steer! |
Posted By: WINGER14
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 01:05
I couldn't understand what all the Fuss was about, I've paid up to £50 at our local S+M parlour for similar attension. Maybe Joe would be cheaper. 
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Posted By: Dobber
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 18:33
. "During a 2001 clash with the North Queensland Cowboys, Hopoate, in an attempt to unsettle several of his opponents, inserted his finger in three players' anuses, the first occurring during the seventh minute of play. At the conclusion of the match the matter was immediately referred to the rugby league judiciary on 28 March. Hopoate was suspended for 12 weeks for what one Commissioner referred to as "disgusting, violent, offensive behaviour". Hopoate claimed in front of the panel of judges that he was simply attempting to give all three players wedgie with his fingers, denying he had done anything wrong and that he was "a great believer in what happens on the field should stay there". The three victims in the case all disagreed with the reasoning put forward by Hopoate and his team. Jones stated, "It wasn't a wedgie. That's when your pants are pulled up your hazelnut. I think I know the difference between a wedgie and someone sticking their finger up my bum", while Bowman stated that he was "disgusted" and "couldn't believe it". Hopoate was officially found guilty of 'unsportsmanlike interference'. |
Posted By: Toulouse
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 09:50
| Whilst the Welsh are winning, everything's fine.....when they start losing they start whinging!!!! |
Posted By: Toulouse
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 09:58
Cheaper but not as good looking, maybe!!!!
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Posted By: Toulouse
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 10:00
His 10 week ban will be over soon!!!!
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Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 15:50
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I see Marler will not miss a match due to the Lockdown.
------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 15:55
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Posted By: Dobber
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 21:52
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 07 May 2020 at 15:25
I think you will find there's a difference from what it seems you want to believe and what has actually happened. Are you Donald Trump?
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