European Super League
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Forum Name: The Championship
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Topic: European Super League
Posted By: Rob C
Subject: European Super League
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 10:07
Interesting that the government is getting in a tizzy about the proposed Football breakaway league, with no relegation:
Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said in a statement the government is "concerned this plan could create a closed shop at the very top of our national game"
They're obviously not bothered by the same thing happening in rugby.
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Replies:
Posted By: Stalwart
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 10:37
Rob C wrote:
Interesting that the government is getting in a tizzy about the proposed Football breakaway league, with no relegation:
Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said in a statement the government is "concerned this plan could create a closed shop at the very top of our national game"
They're obviously not bothered by the same thing happening in rugby. |
Good point.
I wonder if Oliver thinks it's OK in rugby then? let's ask him.
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Posted By: Rob C
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 10:55
He also says:
"We have a football pyramid where funds from the globally successful Premier League flow down the leagues and into local communities. I would be bitterly disappointed to see any action that destroys that."
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 10:55
If only the RFu had the bravery to say we will not recognize a ring fenced league, we will not provide it with referees, we wil ont pick players from it, we will not permitteams in it to enter European competition.
Unfortunatel, the fact that ireland, Scotland and Wales have regional franchises makes that harder.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: JohnLowe
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 11:16
I don’t have a problem with regional franchises provided Doncaster Knights can have the Yorkshire one!
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 11:21
I believe I read that they might consider two teams going up - if they could afford to buy the shares.
If the terms for promotion are going to be financial not sporting, what would stop Manchester United from deciding it wanted a Rugby side - the way John Hall did at newcastle - and getting entry through buying shares.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 11:51
I think part of the problem is that it is six English clubs, plus three Italian and three Spansih clubs. No French, Dutch, German clubs are included.
So the equivalant would be Saracens, Quins, Exeter and Wasps setting up a super league with Racing, Toulon and Toulouse plus Leinster, Munster and Ulster.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 12:48
Camquin wrote:
I believe I read that they might consider two teams going up - if they could afford to buy the shares.
If the terms for promotion are going to be financial not sporting, what would stop Manchester United from deciding it wanted a Rugby side - the way John Hall did at newcastle - and getting entry through buying shares.
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My reading of the proposal is that the additional team promoted to the Premiership would have to buy in the necessary share holding AND win the Championship to be eligible. Yes, an outside interest could achieve this in theory. However they would have to enter at the bottom of the pyramid, get promoted through the ranks, win the Championship and then buy in - all before an existing club took the opportunity - not very likely.
------------- Speak softly, but carry a big stick.
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Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 13:08
What's to stop Worcester been bought by Manchester United and moved to Manchester, or Chelsea coming in for Bath and transplanting them to London?
Wasps created the precedent...
------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards
Remember Wakefield RFC
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Posted By: Stalwart
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 13:23
Very depressing, sport is being hijacked by people only interested in money and who have no real love for the game.
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Posted By: Cricks at 2
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 15:51
A detachable part of the name helps, with Gloucester and Bath it is a bit trickier. However, Chiefs, Tigers, Falcons, Sharks, Bears etc. could all be moved, as previously noted, London Wasps were.
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Posted By: Pirate Pig
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 18:26
We now have the Government minister for the department of Culture Media and Sport Oliver Dowden making a statement in the house of Commons that the government will do everything in their powers to prevent this from happening! If there is government action it will be interesting to see the outcome including any legal action and whether that will have any influence on the possible ring fencing of the premiership.
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Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 19:09
Wrong sport I fear lol.....
Surely we have this already in rugby in the Pro14 and Super Rugby - more so Super rugby with players still being signed to provincial clubs as well as Super rugby clubs?
A have never heard a team from the Boarders - Jedburgh Hawick etc saying Edinburgh Glasgow are getting a leg up? Its easy if they move to a Super league they are no longer in domestic leagues
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Posted By: isleonian
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 19:11
Such a terrible shame we do not have a strong laisser faire whig government intent on allowing the fittest to succeed.
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Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 19:12
Richard Lowther wrote:
What's to stop Worcester been bought by Manchester United and moved to Manchester, or Chelsea coming in for Bath and transplanting them to London?
Wasps created the precedent... |
Let them all move to a super league the Championship in Rugby as the new leading league would drive so many clubs on to progress.... imaging the likes of clubs like DMP Blackheath driving to make the new prem.... let along the clubs like Tynedale Wharfedale - Carlisle or Penrith given a realistic shot of making it without needing Millions in bank to do so
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Posted By: SKalpy
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 20:22
A have never heard a team from the Boarders - Jedburgh Hawick etc saying Edinburgh Glasgow are getting a leg up? Its easy if they move to a Super league they are no longer in domestic leagues
Not been around rugby very long then front5, don't you remember the Border Reevers
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Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 21:01
SKalpy wrote:
front5 wrote:
A have never heard a team from the Boarders - Jedburgh Hawick etc saying Edinburgh Glasgow are getting a leg up? Its easy if they move to a Super league they are no longer in domestic leagues |
Not been around rugby very long then front5, don't you remember the Border Reevers |
I'll see your http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Reivers_%28rugby_union%29" rel="nofollow - Border Reivers and raise you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonia_Reds" rel="nofollow - Caledonia Reds . 
Honourable mention to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Warriors" rel="nofollow - Celtic Warriors .
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Posted By: stadium
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 08:50
The politicians under normal times do not care who runs football or rugby. The have jumped on the band waggon now because they want votes in the May local elections. If they were so bothered why did they allow Putin's Russian mate Arabs and Americans take over the clubs in the first place? Politicians are just as greedy as these Club owners.
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Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 09:56
Couldn't agree more with the above. The government don't give a hoot about football or how it's structured. It's just so laughably obvious that all they're trying to do is make it seem like they care about the wishes of the ordinary fan before the upcoming elections....and especially from this government who are all about the free market, open competition and of course, profit, profit, profit. And anyone moaning about how sport - rugby or football -has been hijacked by big business and the money men must have been living in another universe for the last 25 years.
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Posted By: Albert Fishwick
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 10:21
I have been completely gobsmacked that this has been the main item on the Today programme for the last two days. How soccer is run, provided it's within the law, has nothing to do with the government, still less the BBC.
------------- That's easy for you to say.
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Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 13:17
Correct, Albert. Meddling for meddling sake is all it is.
------------- Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Posted By: Taffy
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 13:20
We wait to see how much clout UEFA and the Football Association has!
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Posted By: stadium
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 15:18
Government Meddling is to garner votes. All populist governments do it. Would they do the same if the PRL & RFU ringfence the Premiership doubt it not enough votes in it to bother.
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Posted By: Pirate Pig
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 15:32
After a meeting with clubs and officials of those not involved with the Super League "Downing Street said the prime minister told his meeting with FA and Premier League officials that the government "will not stand by while a small handful of owners create a closed shop". I hope the government take the same robust action against PRL.
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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 15:43
"While European Super League row gets ugly, Premiership Rugby stays silent hoping nobody notices"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/04/20/european-super-league-row-gets-ugly-premiership-rugby-stays/" rel="nofollow - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/04/20/european-super-league-row-gets-ugly-premiership-rugby-stays/
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Posted By: Geoff DC
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 17:51
Pirate Pig wrote:
After a meeting with clubs and officials of those not involved with the Super League "Downing Street said the prime minister told his meeting with FA and Premier League officials that the government "will not stand by while a small handful of owners create a closed shop". I hope the government take the same robust action against PRL.
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We should all wriite or e-mail our MPs to ask that the Govt take the same action with any RFU/Premiership ringfencing proposals
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 18:48
Have I missed something?
Has this forum now become a football one? Or has someone suggested a ESL for rugby?
------------- RAID ON
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Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 18:55
Raider999 wrote:
Have I missed something?
Has this forum now become a football one? Or has someone suggested a ESL for rugby? |
You are missing the arguments been put forward by the opponents of the European Super League that football is a meritious game, where on field success through promotion (and relegation) is fundamental.
Those same arguments apply in Rugby and should be used to stave off any threat of a Premiership closed shop of the biggest and richest clubs.
------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards
Remember Wakefield RFC
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Posted By: isleonian
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 19:27
Doubt if can be replicated with rugby union, no english, scots or welsh sides strong enough for a really super duper sparkling euro league?
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Posted By: CJB1
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 19:59
Dotcom wrote:
Pirate Pig wrote:
After a meeting with clubs and officials of those not involved with the Super League "Downing Street said the prime minister told his meeting with FA and Premier League officials that the government "will not stand by while a small handful of owners create a closed shop". I hope the government take the same robust action against PRL.
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We should all wriite or e-mail our MPs to ask that the Govt take the same action with any RFU/Premiership ringfencing proposals | You'd have to convince my MP that there was a Kashmiri angle to it or he'd not be interested.
------------- "What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 20:11
Richard Lowther wrote:
Raider999 wrote:
Have I missed something?
Has this forum now become a football one? Or has someone suggested a ESL for rugby? |
You are missing the arguments been put forward by the opponents of the European Super League that football is a meritious game, where on field success through promotion (and relegation) is fundamental.
Those same arguments apply in Rugby and should be used to stave off any threat of a Premiership closed shop of the biggest and richest clubs. |
I see and totally agree - never been a fan of any type of ring-fencing.
------------- RAID ON
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Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 23:43
An Irish Times article from June 2020. Premiership ringfencing is undoubtedly one part of CVC's grand plan.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/a-radical-departure-who-are-cvc-and-what-are-their-plans-for-rugby-1.4267069" rel="nofollow - ‘A radical departure’: Who are CVC and what are their plans for rugby?
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Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 06:40
The collapse of the football European super league proposal is huge for rugby and the move to ring fence the premiership. The level of opposition was incredible and forced a withdrawal.
Hopefully this will be recognised in rugby by the governing body.
------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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Posted By: Rob C
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 10:59
No 7 wrote:
The collapse of the football European super league proposal is huge for rugby and the move to ring fence the premiership. The level of opposition was incredible and forced a withdrawal.
Hopefully this will be recognised in rugby by the governing body. |
I fear the difference will be that the premiership fans will be all for ring fencing and the government won't give a stuff...
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Posted By: donnyladinsheffield
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 12:20
I am afraid I have to agree. Proposals to ring fence have been made before and are tangible and the widespread condemnation that came with the ESL was conspicuous by abscence. Indeed you would find as many if not more articles in favour as against (this forum being a notable exception).
Maybe ESL will have done us a favour and make people 'think again', especially those who advocate but I doubt it. Indeed it could mean they feel empowered to proceed knowing that it has not generated the furore ESL did.
------------- He's alright and he don't care; He's got thermal underwear
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 12:22
Telegraph article today:
While European Super League row gets ugly, Premiership Rugby stays silent hoping nobody notices
If the Premiership is determined to force through expansion and ring-fencing, it must walk through fire to get there - just look at football
DANIEL SCHOFIELD DEPUTY RUGBY UNION CORRESPONDENT 20 April 2021 • 2:06pm
In the unseemly rush to tap in the open goal of condemning the European Super League proposal – a scramble that included the Duke of Cambridge, Keir Starmer, James Corden and Dr Evil (probably) – there was nothing but silence from Premiership Rugby.
Indeed, an edict from head office went out on Tuesday effectively gagging executives from discussing the matter with the media. Right now Premiership Rugby is sitting in its delicate house of glass, desperately hoping none of the stone-wielding mob notices its presence as it storms the gates of Anfield and Old Trafford.
While the Super League is on an entirely different scale to the ring-fencing designs of many Premiership clubs, the accusations of rampant greed, trashing the integrity of the league and going against the wishes of the supporters will hit home as uncomfortably as a massage with a sea urchin. To be clear, the R-word has yet to be implemented. Relegation is suspended this season while a two-legged Championship play-off final will determine who becomes the Premiership’s 13th team next season, most likely Saracens.
In a year in which clubs have made losses of around £10 million because of the pandemic, this was understandable, however the fear remains that this was always a Trojan horse towards the end of relegation. Once you have 13 teams then you might as well have 14 as you do not need any extra weekends to accommodate them. And once you have the 14th team, if they cough up an entrance fee, then you can quietly pull up the drawbridge for an arbitrary period.
One proposal on the table is to suspend relegation until the 2024-25 season. This would have to be signed off by the RFU Council, which is a very different beast to the one a few years ago that considered ring-fencing anathema. The quiet confidence among some – but not all – Premiership clubs that the RFU Council would come on board may need to be reevaluated in the wake of the universal opprobrium that the European Super League has attracted.
Clearly the prize for the top-flight clubs is more matches and more stability. The present system of one team falling down and bouncing back straight away means the Premiership was already a de facto 13-team league. The last team to break that stranglehold was London Welsh and look at them now.
But if there is one lesson you can draw from recent rugby history it should be: tamper with competition structures at your peril. The prime example is Super Rugby. At the turn of the century it was the sport’s golden goose, continuously laying shining eggs. Yet its stakeholders could not resist fattening it up, increasing it from 12 teams to 14, then 15 and ultimately 18 teams in an unwieldy conference system at which point the goose collapsed under its own bloated weight.
Similarly the Pro 14, soon to be Pro 16 with four South African teams, already looks like heading down the same messy path.
The Premiership’s great selling point was always its competitive tension to the backdrop of raucous atmospheres, that every game mattered throughout the season. Remove relegation and you lose its USP. You only have to look at Worcester Warriors’ recent results – conceding 159 points in their past three games – to see what happens when you remove the peril of walking close to the trapdoor. What motivates the casual fan to turn up or tune in to another 50-point drubbing?
It is too soon to say whether the backlash to Super League proposals will cause Premiership clubs to change course. But if they are truly determined to force through expansion and ring-fencing, then they will have to walk through fire to get there.
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Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 14:03
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56830526" rel="nofollow - Darren Childs steps down as Premiership chief after less than two years in charge
The 55-year-old, who will leave his post in "the coming weeks", will act as an advisor to CVC Capital Partners, a key investor in the Premiership, Pro14 and Six Nations.
Childs' predecessor as Premiership chief Mark McCafferty took on a similar role after departing from the English top flight. |
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 14:14
Steve@Mose wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56830526" rel="nofollow - Darren Childs steps down as Premiership chief after less than two years in charge
The 55-year-old, who will leave his post in "the coming weeks", will act as an advisor to CVC Capital Partners, a key investor in the Premiership, Pro14 and Six Nations.
Childs' predecessor as Premiership chief Mark McCafferty took on a similar role after departing from the English top flight. |
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Jobs/rewards for the boys.
They could almost be MPs.
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Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 15:28
WEvans wrote:
Steve@Mose wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56830526" rel="nofollow - Darren Childs steps down as Premiership chief after less than two years in charge
The 55-year-old, who will leave his post in "the coming weeks", will act as an advisor to CVC Capital Partners, a key investor in the Premiership, Pro14 and Six Nations.
Childs' predecessor as Premiership chief Mark McCafferty took on a similar role after departing from the English top flight. |
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Jobs/rewards for the boys.
They could almost be MPs. |
I'd assume that it is CVC letting him save face/buying him off so that they can get someone better in.
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Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 16:38
gerg_861 wrote:
WEvans wrote:
Steve@Mose wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56830526" rel="nofollow - Darren Childs steps down as Premiership chief after less than two years in charge
The 55-year-old, who will leave his post in "the coming weeks", will act as an advisor to CVC Capital Partners, a key investor in the Premiership, Pro14 and Six Nations.
Childs' predecessor as Premiership chief Mark McCafferty took on a similar role after departing from the English top flight. |
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Jobs/rewards for the boys.
They could almost be MPs. |
I'd assume that it is CVC letting him save face/buying him off so that they can get someone better in. | Gerg, I doubt that CVC do either of those things. As they are employing him it will be for a reason. If they wanted him out he would have left very quickly, by the back door, taxi waiting, personal effects to follow in a cardboard box.
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Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 16:45
SKalpy wrote:
A have never heard a team from the Boarders - Jedburgh Hawick etc saying Edinburgh Glasgow are getting a leg up? Its easy if they move to a Super league they are no longer in domestic leagues
Not been around rugby very long then front5, don't you remember the Border Reevers |
I am agreeing they are not complaining about it just let them go is my point
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 17:06
Brizzer - that does seem to be the American way and CVC are based in New York - being a spin out from Citibank.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 17:31
Brizzer wrote:
gerg_861 wrote:
WEvans wrote:
Steve@Mose wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56830526" rel="nofollow - Darren Childs steps down as Premiership chief after less than two years in charge
The 55-year-old, who will leave his post in "the coming weeks", will act as an advisor to CVC Capital Partners, a key investor in the Premiership, Pro14 and Six Nations.
Childs' predecessor as Premiership chief Mark McCafferty took on a similar role after departing from the English top flight. |
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Jobs/rewards for the boys.
They could almost be MPs. |
I'd assume that it is CVC letting him save face/buying him off so that they can get someone better in. | Gerg, I doubt that CVC do either of those things. As they are employing him it will be for a reason. If they wanted him out he would have left very quickly, by the back door, taxi waiting, personal effects to follow in a cardboard box. |
What better than to buy the services of someone familiar with the companies you are doing business with, and who has an awareness of the business' respective vulnerabilities/pressure points that can help steer negotiations to a successful outcome.
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Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 11:53
Steve@Mose wrote:
Brizzer wrote:
gerg_861 wrote:
WEvans wrote:
Steve@Mose wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56830526" rel="nofollow - Darren Childs steps down as Premiership chief after less than two years in charge
The 55-year-old, who will leave his post in "the coming weeks", will act as an advisor to CVC Capital Partners, a key investor in the Premiership, Pro14 and Six Nations.
Childs' predecessor as Premiership chief Mark McCafferty took on a similar role after departing from the English top flight. |
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Jobs/rewards for the boys.
They could almost be MPs. |
I'd assume that it is CVC letting him save face/buying him off so that they can get someone better in. | Gerg, I doubt that CVC do either of those things. As they are employing him it will be for a reason. If they wanted him out he would have left very quickly, by the back door, taxi waiting, personal effects to follow in a cardboard box. |
What better than to buy the services of someone familiar with the companies you are doing business with, and who has an awareness of the business' respective vulnerabilities/pressure points that can help steer negotiations to a successful outcome. |
Exactly.
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Posted By: isleonian
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 12:06
European Super Rugby Union league of 12, proposed composition by country: England - 1 Ireland - 3 Scotland- 1 Wales - 0 Italy - 0 France - 7
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Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 12:09
Brizzer wrote:
Steve@Mose wrote:
Brizzer wrote:
gerg_861 wrote:
WEvans wrote:
Steve@Mose wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56830526" rel="nofollow - Darren Childs steps down as Premiership chief after less than two years in charge
The 55-year-old, who will leave his post in "the coming weeks", will act as an advisor to CVC Capital Partners, a key investor in the Premiership, Pro14 and Six Nations.
Childs' predecessor as Premiership chief Mark McCafferty took on a similar role after departing from the English top flight. |
|
Jobs/rewards for the boys.
They could almost be MPs. |
I'd assume that it is CVC letting him save face/buying him off so that they can get someone better in. | Gerg, I doubt that CVC do either of those things. As they are employing him it will be for a reason. If they wanted him out he would have left very quickly, by the back door, taxi waiting, personal effects to follow in a cardboard box. |
What better than to buy the services of someone familiar with the companies you are doing business with, and who has an awareness of the business' respective vulnerabilities/pressure points that can help steer negotiations to a successful outcome. |
Exactly. |
I respectfully disagree. Removing a C-level executive isn't like removing a standard employee. Darren Childs was CVC's appointment, if he was straight out fired, then that looks bad on CVC. Saying he will 'consult' helps them save face. But don't take my word, the Egg Chasers guys have made the point more eloquently in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaQWXjDm120
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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 13:36
isleonian wrote:
European Super Rugby Union league of 12, proposed composition by country:England - 1 Ireland - 3 Scotland- 1 Wales - 0 Italy - 0 France - 7
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Entry-level trolling at best.
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Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2021 at 16:54
I was panicking when I saw the title. Had a desperate RFU decided a competition with The Championship, France D2, Scotland Super 6? Italy Top 10
------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Posted By: isleonian
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2021 at 17:09
kempstonblue moenie worrie nie
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