The venerable Peter Higgins is incredulous
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Topic: The venerable Peter Higgins is incredulous
Posted By: Big Eddie
Subject: The venerable Peter Higgins is incredulous
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 08:24
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My brother in law ....the venerable Peter Higgins.....is an occasional rugby watcher but is primarliy a football chap. He supports his local team Tranmere Rovers through thick and thin and occasionally travels about 800 metres to watch his local rugby club Caldy. Over a glass of wine I gave Peter a run down on Caldy's journey in the Championship. He was heartened to hear about how hospitable, welcoming and supportive all the other Championship clubs had been towards Caldy and their supporters in their first ever season at this level. Over a few more glasses of a most delightful Sancerre I recounted tales of Richmond's President Chris Mills taking on the prodigious Adam Aigbokhae in a pint race at Paton Field, Ampthill's Paul Turner giving Caldy some heartfelt and supportive advice, the dazzling back play by Bedford and of course the sheer joy (apart from the rugby) of our weekend in Jersey. There were lots of other subsidiary stories that often meandered in a relatively meaningless way, (especially those that involved Graham and his travel plans or were about the pre match lunch before the London Scottish game at the Paton Field Stadium) but soon we moved on to what all of this mean't in league terms for this season and next season. Over a bottle of Malbec I tried my best to explain what was likely to happen next season running through a number of possible scenarios: 1. A team may be relegated from the Championship this season 2. No team may be relegated from the Championship this season 3. A team that doesn't actually exist any more may be parachuted into the Championship for next season 4. This mythical team may be playing anywhere in the country next season 5. The winner of this season's Championship will get ......nothing...and will stay in the Championship (unless they decide to become Welsh) 6. No one has any idea what is likely to happen next season Peter was befuddled and couldn't grasp what I was saying. He asked me the question "Isn't the Championship mean't to be the second level of English Rugby? As I pressed on to try and explain the RFU's chicanery Pete just slowly shook his head and summed up his view on what he had heard. "This would be unacceptable at any level in any other sport in any other civilised country but for it to subsist in England at the second tier of the rugby pyramid is scandalous. I am incredulous how rugby in England can ever prosper in this opaque and directionless environment. Who is at fault for this shambles" Could someone provide Peter with an answer? ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Replies:
Posted By: KnightsBoy
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 08:59
| That's easy, the RFU is totally at fault. |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 16:33
| I can only be impressed at the eloquence of Mr Higgins after a bottle of Sancerre and a bottle of Malbec! |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 16:43
Peter Higgins is a very eloquent man..........even when fortified by a bottle of fine wine.......although he may possibly have said "FFS you must be effing kidding me"
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
WEvans wrote:Posted By: Cricks at 2
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 19:36
| Just to keep your alliteration going BE, Fifty Seven old farts. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 20:08
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Would that they were still in charge. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 20:48
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I would point to the dazzling display of the English Rugby team playing Ireland to confirm the excellent mind set of the RFU. Any disagreement should be sanctioned by The RFU. ------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused. |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 06:01
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For years I have railed against the RFU's chicanery and complete indifference to the game outside the elite level but it took a conversation with Peter Higgins who is outside any rugby orbit to shine a light on how bad the chronic maladministration of English Rugby has become. In my twenties and early thirties I was suffering from a chronic illness that took hold very gradually and eventually got so bad it seriously affected the quality of my life. Bizarrely I didn't seek a diagnosis until a visiting family member was so shocked by my obvious physical distress they insisted I went to see a doctor. Looking back on it now it is inexplicable that I did nothing about it for such a long period of time. I just thought that perhaps my condition was just a normal part of life that came to everyone when they reached adulthood. The game of rugby is afflicted by a similar chronic malaise that is going untreated because rugby has by and large learn't to live with this sickness even though it is seriously affecting the very fabric of our game. Unfortunately even though the venerable Peter Higgins has pointed out the "bl***ing obvious" it is not clear to me which doctor we should get a diagnosis from or whether there is actually any cure or palliative remedy ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 11:06
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I am going to speak to the venerable Peter Higgins to ascertain his views on the latest very strong rumour that has come to my attention. I understand (from someone who should know) that there is a proposal that is being put forward to the RFU Council members that next season the Championship should comprise 14 teams. This unexpected twist is apparently to save London Scottish from relegation! My understanding is that the Council members will be asked to approve the inclusion of Wasps Phoenix, no relegation from the Championship (a reprieve for London Scottish), one team to be promoted from National One and of course no promotion for the team that wins the Championship. I welcome a 14 team league but not the way it is proposed to be achieved, I am sure Peter Higgins will give me one of his head shakes....and I am sure he will tell me that...... If the Championship is to go to 14 teams surely it should be organised via: - the relegation of the bottom club in the Premiership - the promotion of the club in first place in the Championship - and the promotion of two sides from National 1 The genesis of this proposal, which apparently has been tabled by the RFU Management team (possibly one person or half a person) responsible for the Championship and is also backed by the Championship clubs perpetuates ring fencing. Surely two sides should be promoted from National 1? Am I being naïve? ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 11:15
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Expansion of leagues has traditionally been done by reducing the number of sides relegated. However, as the RFU need 24 teams for their new cup, I cannot see this flying I can see LS being reprieved due to the new pests not getting off the ground, or one more side goign belly up. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 11:20
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You are probably right Camquin and I have nothing against London Scottish but in my mind it isn't right that 2 sides are not promoted from National 1 in these circumstances. Surely success should be reinforced rather than failure being rewarded. ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 16:18
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If Wasps are to be included (and I am still struggling to find how or why they should be) in the Championship, then it would be grossly unfair to relegate LS. Wasps went bust, not LS. If the RFU want a 14 team 2nd tier and assuming that they will not relegate from or promote to the PL, then they should maintain the Championship 12 from this season and promote the top 2 in N1. Wasps can go fish as far as I’m concerned, but hey! That is my own personal opinion which others may well disagree with. ------------- Tackle Low!!!!! |
Posted By: JohnLowe
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 16:41
| What makes the idea of a 14 team Championship even more incredulous is that the following season it has been suggested that will be reduced by 5 to give two 10 team Premiership 1 and 2 (ie 11 + 14 less 10 less 10). Hope this makes sense and that’s before I have touched a drop of 🍷 |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 17:12
I completely agree Brizzer and I think the venerable Peter Higgins will as well when I next discuss the situation with him.... ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 17:14
John, I am sure when I explain your logical observation to the venerable Peter Higgins he may well turn to drink ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 17:56
I fear the rugby equivalent of Dignitas is the only option. I have long held the opinion that we need the majority of clubs in the Premiership to go to the wall in order for our game to be reset to operate in a sustainable manner. And if that means our top clubs are unable to compete in the European South African Cup then so what? Until then for me meaningful rugby only exists from the National League down and even that is becoming polluted by the incompetence above it. (No offence intended Big Eddie!).
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Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 20:34
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WEvans, I don't take issue with your assessment and I reinforce some of what you say below. However, I have to say that despite my own apprehension as to what the Championship experience would be like for Caldy I have enjoyed the experience way better than I expected. My present assessment of the Championship after almost a full season: 1. All the clubs without exception have been hugely hospitable and appear to be run by proper rugby people. It has been a joyous experience to visit these Championship clubs 2. The quality and standard of rugby has not been the attritional slug fest I feared. Some of the play has been exhilarating, exciting and hugely entertaining. The Caldy v Bedford match was one of the greatest games of rugby I have ever seen.......and I have seen a few games! 3. Any team can beat any other on their day.....it is just a great product. 4. The pre match and post match craic has been exceptional and the Ravers' creed 'Win or lose we are on the booze' is not out of place, Economically rugby at the elite level is just plain bonkers. It is a terrible business with no prospect of ever reaching self sufficiency. I just pulled the latest filed sets of accounts for two different Premiership sides. One is acknowledged to be in difficulty. I haven't seen any such comment about the other. The latest publicly available balance sheet of the 'troubled' club has net liabilities of circa £4m (after including the value of the P Shares at a staggering £20m) The latest publicly available balance sheet of the other club has net liabilities of £1.5million (after including the P Shares at a valuation of nearly £18m) Based on the filed accounts both clubs are heavily loss making and they only remain solvent because their owners continue to support them. I doubt whether either of the owners would persist with such a 'business' in any other sector. I am sure if I pulled a few more sets of accounts the pattern would be repeated. Rugby is a shockingly bad business and for the life of me I cannot understand how any owner can enjoy the experience. It must be a gut wrenchingly corrosive ride.......with no end. The Championship and National 1 down seems to be a very much better place to be.
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 23:58
BE - my accountancy days are long gone. Where does "Going concern" and "Trading whilst insolvent" fit in to the equation? ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2023 at 06:21
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FHLH, The 'troubled club' has a going concern qualification relating to material uncertainty in its latest filed accounts. The other club has written confirmation from its parent company relating to funding and the audit reort has no qualification re going concern. I would suggest that the biggest issue in the balance sheet of both companies is the valuation of the P shares. With an ascribed carrying value of nearly £20m and nearly £18m for these 'investments' in the respective balance sheets I would suggest that if I asked Pete (I think everyone knows the venerable Peter Higgins well enough now that we can be more familiar) whether he would pay such amounts for these P shares he wouldn't need to ask his financial advisor .
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2023 at 15:31
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Big Eddie, Firstly I totally accept your points above and am delighted Caldy have had a great and enjoyable season in the Championship. My comment suggesting meaningful rugby does not exist in the Championship was made for several reasons. Firstly due to the ludicrous situation where one of the member clubs can only participate due to borrowing players from other clubs (31 so far by my reckoning). Secondly due to the farcical matter of promotion and thirdly due to the scandalous shenanigans apparently taking place to welcome the morally as well as financially bankrupt Wasps next season. I fully accept the above is not the fault of the clubs (with the exception of the one which isn't really a club anymore) but in my humble opinion it all makes the Championship a meaningless league even if there is some decent rugby played. Apologies for not making this clearer in my original post and I for one will welcome Caldy back to the National League if and when they are "fortunate" enough to win the only sort of promotion from the Championship that matters!
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Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2023 at 17:12
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In the interest of balance I would also record that imo this has been a brilliant rugby season in Championship and the quality of rugby has been as good as I have seen in the last decade or so. The league has remained competitive at the top and bottom and with a few rounds to go it is still all to play for. There have been just shy of 8 tries scored in every game and there is only one hooker in the top ten individual try scorers. Scottish have done what they could with limited finances to compete and but for a couple of missed conversions nearly beat Jersey at St Peter and I for one will welcome them and Wasps next season in the same way I would any visiting team. The teams in the Championship next season will be determined by the RFU whom I have limited respect for but the clubs that we play should always be welcome.
------------- Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2023 at 18:42
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Or not, depending on who ends up in the division. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Moseley Mauler
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2023 at 19:05
| Wasps are a franchise, not a club... |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2023 at 20:01
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Wasps FC is a perfectly fine club. With great rivalries with Saracens, Ealing and London Scottish. Herts II is a great league. Wasps RFC is a mere phantom ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2023 at 22:08
Quite ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2023 at 22:10
TheMK Dons of rugby. At least they had the decency to move just once. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Whistle watcher
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2023 at 09:58
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I was advised last weekend that there are pans for 12, 13 and 14 sides in the Championship, 14 being LS relegated, Wasps parachuted in, Rams and Sale FC promoted and ....wait for it.. Newcastle relegated having taken a £10m bung from the RFU to take relegation and no promotion, thus achieving the so long awaited ring fenced prem. I know what Mark says, but it's just another twisted tale in a long convoluted series fo them. |
Posted By: All the Way
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2023 at 11:05
Great community club, just up the road from me!
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Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2023 at 17:00
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I would like someone to explain to me what or how logic or fairness is involved in allowing a new rugby club called Wasps to enter the pyramid at level 2. I cannot see any justification for it and it once again smacks of chicanery
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2023 at 17:07
Trust me Big Eddie, we are all asking ourselves exactly the same thing. ------------- Tackle Low!!!!! |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2023 at 17:14
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I cannot even see what the possible financial benefit is. Does the RFU believe that this new club will be awash with thousands of supporters that will benefit the Championship. Personally I very much doubt it. It is just a decision with seemingly absolutely no merit that reflects very badly on the integrity, ability and common sense of the RFU. I hope someone can provide me with some potential justification because if there is none the RFU are in danger of being considered to be less than competent ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2023 at 21:22
| I believe that the RFU are seriously considering having no relegation from the championship , saving either Richmond or London Scottish and having a 14 team league plus a cup competition with the first six weeks being for the cup , whilst the World cup is on. The league will then start in Mod October and carry on into May. Championship clubs will be required to play 32 matches. What happened to player safety and reducing the number of games. This will only happen for one season so what is the point. |