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Wasps/Worcester

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Richard Lowther View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 10:50
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Piece in the Guardian this morning suggests Wasps Mk2 are planning a new stadium and “conference/hotel/leisure facilities “ somewhere along the M40, allegedly to be up and running by 2028.
They aim to be back in the Premiership by 2025/6.
Not quite sure how this comes to pass.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 11:03
Just don't see where the money comes from, huge debts to pay off even before they put together a structure to field a team, then there's a time schedule to meet for the rest of the leagues teams
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 11:11
Is that 12 days late.
No statement from Wasps.
No hope of the Nest being ready before the 2026/7 season - so where were they thinking of playing before that.
The hotel is going to generate £7m a year - frankly, if a new hotel could do that - why lumber it with a rugby stadium - take the money and run.

Who writes these business proposals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 12:16
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Piece in the Guardian this morning suggests Wasps Mk2 are planning a new stadium and “conference/hotel/leisure facilities “ somewhere along the M40, allegedly to be up and running by 2028.
They aim to be back in the Premiership by 2025/6.
Not quite sure how this comes to pass.

And just where are they getting the money for all this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 12:36
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Is that 12 days late.
No statement from Wasps.
No hope of the Nest being ready before the 2026/7 season - so where were they thinking of playing before that.
The hotel is going to generate £7m a year - frankly, if a new hotel could do that - why lumber it with a rugby stadium - take the money and run.

Who writes these business proposals.

The article suggests that the Henley-in-Arden trading ground could be upgraded for Championship rugby. Doesn’t suggest where a playing squad might come from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 12:39
Apparently the hotel will contribute £7m
According to Knight Frank outside London you need on average a 165 room hotel to generate £7m in revenue. That is taking their average Total Revenue per room from their 2022 report and doing some arithmetic.

That is roughly the same size as the hotel at Twickenham.

To get a Gross Profit of £7m, you are looking at a 480 room hotel.
And we are still only talking gross profit.

Event spaces are there as a way to sell hotel rooms - they generally do not contribute much to total revenue.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 12:42
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Is that 12 days late.
No statement from Wasps.
No hope of the Nest being ready before the 2026/7 season - so where were they thinking of playing before that.
The hotel is going to generate £7m a year - frankly, if a new hotel could do that - why lumber it with a rugby stadium - take the money and run.

Who writes these business proposals.

The article suggests that the Henley-in-Arden trading ground could be upgraded for Championship rugby. Doesn’t suggest where a playing squad might come from.

I would love to include the fag packet that these plans were drawn up on in my rugby memorabilia collection!

IF Wasps could get a playing squad together to compete in the Championship, they would have to fund it for three seasons before they had a ground capable of meeting the cartel's ground conditions - working on the presumption that the training ground could not be upgraded to the 5,000 capacity. If it can, then why would they need to build another stadium, just build up the training ground bit by bit until it passes the cartels magic figure?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 12:52
Don't forget - The Ricoh's hotel, casino, concerts, catering, etc etc generated millions upon millions for them.

Didn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 13:17
There's a strong smell, is it cow?.......................pig?......................no it's bull.......................
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 13:17
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Is that 12 days late.
No statement from Wasps.
No hope of the Nest being ready before the 2026/7 season - so where were they thinking of playing before that.
The hotel is going to generate £7m a year - frankly, if a new hotel could do that - why lumber it with a rugby stadium - take the money and run.

Who writes these business proposals.

The article suggests that the Henley-in-Arden trading ground could be upgraded for Championship rugby. Doesn’t suggest where a playing squad might come from.

I would love to include the fag packet that these plans were drawn up on in my rugby memorabilia collection!

IF Wasps could get a playing squad together to compete in the Championship, they would have to fund it for three seasons before they had a ground capable of meeting the cartel's ground conditions - working on the presumption that the training ground could not be upgraded to the 5,000 capacity. If it can, then why would they need to build another stadium, just build up the training ground bit by bit until it passes the cartels magic figure?

What an absolute bunch of fantasists. The only thing that they have going for them is that they are unlikely to ever get relegated from the Championship, no matter how bad (just look at London Scottish a.k.a. Harlequins 2nds).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimbojetset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 14:37
Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

What an absolute bunch of fantasists. The only thing that they have going for them is that they are unlikely to ever get relegated from the Championship, no matter how bad (just look at London Scottish a.k.a. Harlequins 2nds).

I hate to say it, but Rugby itself lives in a bizarre fantasy world. Since the advent of professionalism many clubs and their boards have been delusional in what they can achieve and even what that success might bring.

By and large, the revenue generated does not match the money spent on generating it. Even at National One level, people seem to hurl money at the game, with huge back room staff and salaried players without much of a plan to remain sustainable in the long term. It all appears to be short term glory. 

The board of Wasps may have found the magic formula for creating a new team out of thin air with a plan to build a sustainable stadium, but I can’t help feeling that they may just be kidding themselves. 
Anyone who wants to own a professional rugby team must have money to burn on a permanent basis and be an absolute fan of the sport. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 14:49
I had a brief conversation with one of the Wasps Legends after the England U18 match at Esher in which his son played. He was bullish about Wasps being in the Championship next season but not prepared to divulge any details. Now I see why, he wouldn't have wanted me laughing at him in public!

I don't think this plan is good enough for The Apprentice, let alone Dragon's Den! That said, it may be good enough for the RFU Council. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigChief Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 15:15
and another open dig at LS Gerg - well in there fella Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 21:42
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Piece in the Guardian this morning suggests Wasps Mk2 are planning a new stadium and “conference/hotel/leisure facilities “ somewhere along the M40, allegedly to be up and running by 2028.
They aim to be back in the Premiership by 2025/6.
Not quite sure how this comes to pass.


Talking to some one earlier they mentioned the Kassam Stadium potentially would become available if Oxford United manage to secure an alternative ground. 

Food for thought and a lot quicker and cheaper than building from scratch plus the potential to build on the empty space behind one goal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2023 at 22:57
I believe there is also around the Oxford area some kind of deal in the offing regarding Oxford united/Oxford city council and a redevelopment of stratfield brake sports park (currently. The home of Gosford Allblacks)

Add in that Oxford college is the home  of the Wasps AASE academy (male & female) which is now becoming an Rfu direct sponsored academy to keep it running (the week before that was announced every club in the area was on a call about problems with colts / U18g rugby and named that college as the worst culprit for restricting players playing for their home clubs)

The rfu seem happy to bail out Wasps mistakes so some deal will be done
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Intouch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2023 at 07:37
All very interesting, but I wonder if it will be a level playing field in treatment.

Will they have to prove 

1/ They have at least 30 players registered, without being either DR,loan or England academy registered
2/ They have paid all " rugby debts in full" before they can pay a penny to new squad
3/ They have use of ground for at least 2 seasons 
4/ The have at least £400k in cash in the bank on 1st August to cover costs for upcoming season.

As well as another 200 hoops that had to be jumped through and given 6 weeks notice to comply!

Or does that only happen if your sponsor leaves the RFU hanging for £2m because they did not do their due diligence on the company they had on the front of their international shirts and needed a scapegoat, before they brushed the loss under the carpet!

Because there are a couple of lawyers looking very closely at the outcome of this, under the unfair treatment of one member club and favouring another! 


Edited by Intouch - 14 Apr 2023 at 07:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2023 at 08:25
The problem is that Wasps aren't subject to the RFU's regulations regarding administration.  Under those rules, they would be relegated to the bottom of the pyramid.  But under Premiership regulations, administration just means relegation to the Championship.  And if there are other sub-clauses in those regulations that allow them to by-pass what you and I would consider due process, then they can get away with just about anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2023 at 08:32
Originally posted by Dad Dad wrote:

I believe there is also around the Oxford area some kind of deal in the offing regarding Oxford united/Oxford city council and a redevelopment of stratfield brake sports park (currently. The home of Gosford Allblacks)


A former Oxfordshire resident writes...

Not quite - it was going to be Stratfield Brake but both OUFC and the County Council had overlooked the fact that some of the land was on very long term lease to (from memory) Gosford and Water Eaton Parish Council - who, not wanting a stadium on Stratfield Brake, said they wouldn't be surrendering it. The City Council had been very keen on the deal - any suggestion that that was because it wasn't within their boundaries is pure mischief making...

So... planning is now focused on Frieze Way, which has the added bonus (from OUFC's pov) of not needing any of the enabling provision of new facilities to existing sports clubs. 

That being said, it's further complicated by OUFC wanting it, Oxfordshire County Council wanting it, Oxford City Council wanting it, but the land sitting in Cherwell District Council (as planning authority). It's also in the Green Belt, at a particularly narrow point, and would essentially join up Oxford and Kidlington. This is going to get very messy, and probably eventually have to be decided by the Secretary of State. Brighton all over again. 

Meanwhile, over at the Kassam Stadium, the owner is unlikely to want to sell to another sports team, given the scale of Oxford's unmet housing need, the gridlock from the surrounding council's no longer willing to take Oxford's need while Oxford refuses to develop brownfield land, and the money that he can make putting houses on what is an enormous site. A sports team coming in and wanting a stadium when Oxford is struggling to provide one for the professional sports team it's got* - so two stadiums - is unlikely to get a look in. 

Potentially they could go in with OUFC, but OUFC have got billionaire owners, so why they would need to do that, when they have no financial need and they're already not going to have as much land to develop for other things at Friee Way as they would at Stratfield Brake, is another question.

*long story short, it took years to move Oxford Utd from the Manor Ground to what became the Kassam, then their saviour sold the club but kept the stadium, and their lease runs out in a couple of years. Hence OUFC's desperation to find anywhere they can build a third stadium in 30 years, while most of the city, not being big football fans, either don't care, don't want it on their doorstep, or don't understand what's wrong with the one they've got....

Oxford is probably not an easier nut to crack.


Edited by billesleyexile - 14 Apr 2023 at 08:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2023 at 08:40
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Is that 12 days late.
No statement from Wasps.
No hope of the Nest being ready before the 2026/7 season - so where were they thinking of playing before that.
The hotel is going to generate £7m a year - frankly, if a new hotel could do that - why lumber it with a rugby stadium - take the money and run.

Who writes these business proposals.

The article suggests that the Henley-in-Arden trading ground could be upgraded for Championship rugby. Doesn’t suggest where a playing squad might come from.
Parking would a problem, not much space. Public transport? 
Cauliflower ear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJB1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2023 at 09:05
Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Is that 12 days late.
No statement from Wasps.
No hope of the Nest being ready before the 2026/7 season - so where were they thinking of playing before that.
The hotel is going to generate £7m a year - frankly, if a new hotel could do that - why lumber it with a rugby stadium - take the money and run.

Who writes these business proposals.

The article suggests that the Henley-in-Arden trading ground could be upgraded for Championship rugby. Doesn’t suggest where a playing squad might come from.
Parking would a problem, not much space. Public transport? 
Buses between Birmingham and Stratford - every hour or 1/2 hour?  Railway station on Birmingham to Stratford line, again service inadequate for these purposes and a bit of a walk from the ground.
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