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Wasps/Worcester

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tigerburnie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2023 at 21:58
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Very cynical view tigerburnie but probably within a nanomilimetre of what will actually happen
I've had years of practice lol
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Big Eddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2023 at 06:51
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

I feel bad about giving the RFU any credit. But they never envisioned this situation.
The only lever they have to get the new owners of Wasps to pay the rugby creditors is a place in the Championship.
If they enforce the regulations and tell Wasps if they cannot play in Coventry, they must start from the bottom, why would the new owner do anything but buy the rights to the badge for a nominal sum, and ignore all other debts.

Frankly, it is a pity Wasps FC did not retain control over the name and badge.

At the moment, Wasps RFC seems to be a pig in a poke: we have no idea where they will play, who will play for them, who will coach them or who the sponsor will be.

And I am not sure if Wasps know.

A very logical and balanced post Camquin.......but there is a however......the historical chicanery of the RFU is such that I cannot ascribe this logical argument to the RFU. 

I wish I could because in any situation where a credible institution acts in a way that seems to be somewhat perverse my first inclination is to make the assumption that there has to be a compelling and understandable reason behind their actions. I rail against my friends and relatives who have for ever harangued against the NHS, the Tories, Labour, NATO, the Democrats, HMRC and Birkenhead Park RFC.

My normal stance is to quietly point out that in general institutions aren't malevolent or intentionally unjust they just struggle to deal with problems that seem easy to rectify when numbered in single digits but are infinitely more taxing when measured in the millions.

Unfortunately in my eyes the RFU lost any credibility and legitimate moral authority many years ago when it decided to abandon the vast majority to support the very few.......some of whom have now been shown to be unscrupulous bounders.

I don't know how the RFU will ever regain the trust and moral authority which once bound it to its member clubs. For the last 20 years or so the RFU has acquiesced to the Cartel whilst simultaneously burdening, disregarding, defunding and patronising the vast majority of rugby clubs in England.

When Birkenhead Park RFC was recognised as one of the most distinguished  1st class rugby clubs in England, Caldy were probably playing at level 8 or thereabouts. As Caldy, fuelled by an enlightened and progressive Mini and Junior youth policy, started their march up the leagues they arrived at level 6 and for the first time met Birkenhead Park RFC in a league fixture at Paton Field.

'Park' were on a shallow but progressive descent from their historic heights but they were still very formidable opposition for Caldy and were very strong favourites for the fixture. Before the game I had mentally bracketed Birkenhead Park RFC as the aloof patricians coming to Paton Field to put upstarts Caldy in their place. It was them and us and for the week before the game I told anyone who would listen how Birkenhead Park RFC would surely treat Caldy with such patronising and unbearable contempt that I dreaded the aftermath.......in truth I couldn't see how a denuded Caldy (who had pre season lost a number of key players to Birkenhead Park RFC) could possibly win.

It was a torrid, intense game with Caldy somehow withstanding immense pressure from the very formidable Park forwards including such rampaging behemoths as John McNally and Steve O' Keefe. Completely against the run of play Caldy's diminutive stand off Ian Cropper won the game for Caldy with a drop goal from the near the half way line. 

The rapturous celebrations at Paton Field lasted past midnight.....and there, remaining in the little wooden shack to the end of a long, long night were most of the Birkenhead Park players and officials.....they didn't slink away or sulk or complain about Caldy's outrageous victory (and they would have had real cause to do so!) , they applauded Caldy's endeavour and fortitude and showed me what true class, respect and dignity in rugby terms was all about. I have never forgotten it.

I would love to see the RFU displaying the same class, dignity and respect to Community Rugby in England as Birkenhead Park RFC showed to Caldy all those years ago.......




Edited by Big Eddie - 16 Feb 2023 at 06:57
''The future isn't what it used to be''
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KnightsBoy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KnightsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2023 at 09:12
Don't hold your breath Big Eddie

Edited by KnightsBoy - 16 Feb 2023 at 09:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2023 at 09:16
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

And the problem is even worse by the fact that if they did get sent right to the bottom, they'd just do a London Welsh and take over Wasps FC and start from a far more advanced position.
I know you've got a massive problem with what we did, but it just meant we started at L9 instead of L10. Similarly Wasps would be staring at L8 instead of L9 if they followed the same path.
You make it sound like we were taking over local L4 club just to grab their place in the league.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoatgobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2023 at 09:44
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

It all feels very wrong and for clubs like Ampthill and Caldy that have fought their way up the leagues this must really hurt. I cannot see them being popular!!!!

It is very very wrong. What the RFU is sanctioning is morally indefensible. 

Never mind Ampthill and Caldy what about Richmond and London Welsh. How can the RFU possibly have any authority left when they make up the rules as they go along to suit the circumstances which they deem to be necessary and expedient for who? The Premiership Clubs of course and the tarnished organisation called the RFU.

If there was a poll tomorrow how many clubs outside the Premiership would sanction Wasps starting in the Championship rather than starting again at the bottom of the pyramid........this is outrageous.

And the problem is even worse by the fact that if they did get sent right to the bottom, they'd just do a London Welsh and take over Wasps FC and start from a far more advanced position.


London Welsh, the professional club who played in the Premiership, were liquidatd and have never restarted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigbluepip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2023 at 22:20
I’m just glad that ringfencing the  Prem to allow clubs stability to recover from COVID is going so well for the RFU Wink
I want you all to line up in a circle and pair up in three's alphabetically by height.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2023 at 23:06
Originally posted by Stoatgobbler Stoatgobbler wrote:

Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

It all feels very wrong and for clubs like Ampthill and Caldy that have fought their way up the leagues this must really hurt. I cannot see them being popular!!!!

It is very very wrong. What the RFU is sanctioning is morally indefensible. 

Never mind Ampthill and Caldy what about Richmond and London Welsh. How can the RFU possibly have any authority left when they make up the rules as they go along to suit the circumstances which they deem to be necessary and expedient for who? The Premiership Clubs of course and the tarnished organisation called the RFU.

If there was a poll tomorrow how many clubs outside the Premiership would sanction Wasps starting in the Championship rather than starting again at the bottom of the pyramid........this is outrageous.

And the problem is even worse by the fact that if they did get sent right to the bottom, they'd just do a London Welsh and take over Wasps FC and start from a far more advanced position.


London Welsh, the professional club who played in the Premiership, were liquidatd and have never restarted.

Yes, but everything they had ended up in the hands of London Welsh Amateur, who just so happened to take the name of London Welsh the next season....... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2023 at 19:40
Leicester just announced that two of their chairmen have to inject £13m to avoid potential administration. Almost glad Ealing denied promotion.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2023 at 23:54
Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

Leicester just announced that two of their chairmen have to inject £13m to avoid potential administration. Almost glad Ealing denied promotion.



If true that highlights the fact that Premiership clubs are living beyond their means as Leicester surely have the largest average crowd.

Whilst I believe Rugby players earn every penny (especially compared to the round ball equivalents) - you cannot payoutmore than you bring in.
RAID ON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2023 at 13:55
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

 

....

Whilst I believe Rugby players earn every penny (especially compared to the round ball equivalents) - you cannot payoutmore than you bring in.

I thought that is what just about every club in the Premiership has been doing for years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2023 at 17:04
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

Leicester just announced that two of their chairmen have to inject £13m to avoid potential administration. Almost glad Ealing denied promotion.



If true that highlights the fact that Premiership clubs are living beyond their means as Leicester surely have the largest average crowd.

Whilst I believe Rugby players earn every penny (especially compared to the round ball equivalents) - you cannot payoutmore than you bring in.
Leicester have had 4 home games so far this season and have just paid back the covid loan to the government, so needed a cash injection to pay wages, there was no sign of administration, potential or otherwise, close to a £million turnover for a home game at Welford Road.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2023 at 18:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2023 at 18:48
Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

Leicester have had 4 home games so far this season and have just paid back the covid loan to the government, so needed a cash injection to pay wages, there was no sign of administration, potential or otherwise, close to a £million turnover for a home game at Welford Road.
According to the article in the Telegraph:

Although it is understood that the threat of administration is still some way off, the shareholders' circular suggested, were this proposal not to be approved, that the club's "directors believe that they may have no choice but to appoint administrators" which could see Leicester "expelled from all competitions, including the Premiership".

"The board believes that the subscription is essential to secure the company’s financial position and to enable the survival and future success of Leicester Tigers," read the circular. "If the resolutions are not passed then the proceeds of the subscription will not be received by the company and the board would have to find urgent alternative funding. There is no guarantee that such alternative funding will be available or on terms deemed to be acceptable either to the directors or to the company’s creditors.

"Given the company’s current and anticipated working capital requirements, the directors believe that should the resolutions not be passed they may have no choice but to appoint administrators. This will not only negatively impact shareholders but the directors believe that Leicester Tigers could, as a consequence, be expelled from all competitions, including the Premiership, and so the subscription is vitally important to the future of the club."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2023 at 19:06
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Updates from Worcester News journo...

"Wasps will be able to share players with Worcester initially to help Warriors progress through the leagues."
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2023 at 19:25
Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Updates from Worcester News journo...

"Wasps will be able to share players with Worcester initially to help Warriors progress through the leagues."
Brilliant the sooner they get back to the top end of the pyramid the better. The daft rules will lead to several seasons of mismatches and wins by 100 points plus. Jersey are going through this at present as years later than it should have happened Jersey have a another team working their way up the pyramid. They win all their games! Wuss & Wasps should both be in the Championship next year and Ealing & Cov should be in the prem. The RFU should govern the game to remove the bandits and rugby should live within its means.

Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2023 at 20:15
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Updates from Worcester News journo...

"Wasps will be able to share players with Worcester initially to help Warriors progress through the leagues."
Brilliant the sooner they get back to the top end of the pyramid the better.

Always good to have a parody account. National 1 will be a stumbling block, so 5/6 years to get into Championship (assuming they can find a ground to play at)
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2023 at 20:52
Wasps will be a championship club, potentially renting an expensive ground.
How are they going to afford enough players to survive, let alone have any to loan out.
Most championship clubs struggle to fund their own squad.
Sweeney Delenda Est
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2023 at 22:24
Laurence Bruno of Arabia(well that's about the only place they haven't thought of playing) will charge up on his steed and make sure the brand is ok.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toulouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2023 at 09:37
Whilst talking to our club chairman last week he told me about the RFU's proposals for the top 3 tiers starting season 2024-25. 10 Team Premiership, 10 team premiership 2 and National 1, 10 teams south, 10 teams north. This was proposed over a zoom type meeting and most clubs have stated they cannot support these changes. 9 Home games would mean a massive drop in revenue for most clubs. But seeing the RFU is a dictatorship, if they want these changes they will force them through!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2023 at 10:06
.....Wasps to Worcester? https://amp.rugbypass.com/news/wasps-issue-statement-on-sixways-rumours/

Edited by FHLH - 20 Feb 2023 at 10:08
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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