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Why do the RFU give clubs money? |
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WEvans ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 08 Dec 2016 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1456 |
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Yet another strawman argument. At
absolutely no stage whatsoever have I said I wish to deny players the
opportunity to play at the top level. I said I would ring-fence the Premiership
clubs to keep (those that run them) away from the rest of the game. There would
be absolutely nothing to stop any players joining teams in a ring-fenced league
as they do now in an almost ring-fenced league anyway. Your desperation for an argument really is incredibly childish and can be witnessed on the very many boards on which you post and by the way your views often change from board to board depending on who you want to argue with at the time. I have no wish to engage in any further discussion with you and will only respond to your posts if you direct future posts at me. I'd be grateful if you would do the same. |
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Kimbo ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 31 May 2007 Location: 'incleh Status: Offline Points: 6605 |
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Danny GrewHuckleberry gained his first cap while still at his home club Cov.
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Kimbo ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 31 May 2007 Location: 'incleh Status: Offline Points: 6605 |
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Oh for heaven's sake. Danny Grewc ock.
Ridiculous.
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Dad ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 2013 Location: berks Status: Offline Points: 498 |
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In the male (and now female) game the "promising" youngsters are steered away from teenage clubs at 15 and in many cases pointed at specific colleges for their 6th form years.
For them to be spotted at that age a lot of their natural talent has already been brought out by clubs (down to levels 6 or 7 in my area), the academies have a monopoly on those from certain cb's so they can't really be said to be doing massive amounts pre 18. Last year the national u18 girls cup was decimated as in Aug the a new "performance college league" sprung into existence with girls playing in that on a Wednesday told not to play for clubs on the Sunday. The same year the girls age grades changed from 13,15,18 to 12,14,16,18 reducing u18 numbers by a 1/3. Most of the clubs usually making the regional finals struggled to even get a team out and the results list was just a list of HWO and AWO. To save a handful of players from overplaying the majority got far fewer games and lots dropped out of the sport. Now with the demise of the Prem clubs the rfu have had to pick up the DPP's and academies for at least LI & Wasps so let's see if having the rfu instead of prem clubs running the extra coaching allows players to keep playing with their mates and their mates keep playing. As an interesting aside, unlike prev 3 year deals where all women's prem 15 teams had to run a "centre of Excellence" (u18 academy) Ealing have not been allowed one and the rfu is running one out of Oxford Harlequins using the staff of Oxford College which was the Wasps Ace college
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@boatyjames ![]() British and Irish Lion ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 Aug 2016 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 180 |
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100%. Acadamies have destroyed boys youth rugby and are now doing the same for girls. All started by N Melville and similar private school types at the RFU prioritising schools and academies over clubs. Now the counties are busily endorsing this approach by hiving out their U16’s and Colts teams to the local academy coaches. So Surrey and Sussex colts are now run by Quins!! Absolutely balmy and prevents clubs developing a sensible player pathway based on U16’s, Colts and county if you are good enough. Shameful and all paid for by our RFU. Edited by @boatyjames - 15 Jun 2023 at 17:14 |
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tigerburnie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3996 |
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You deliberately try to miss the point again, if a club wants to join the Premiership and their players want to play in the Premiership, they have to have access, ring fencing would deny that, exactly as it does now. No-where did I talk about players leaving their present club to join another club, again you jump to the wrong conclusion. You clearly hate the Premiership and you clearly want nothing to do with it, we get that, but what you propose is not what everyone wants and you seem unable to see that, promotion and relegation makes for competition, remove that and as the boss of Jersey was quoted as saying "what's the point of winning the Championship".
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WEvans ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 08 Dec 2016 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1456 |
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I stand by everything I said in my earlier message and you adding to your childishness by now claiming to know what I do and don't think and suggesting you speak on behalf of others ("we get it") only reinforces my opinion. I say again - I have no wish to engage in any further discussion with you and will only respond to your posts if you direct future posts at me. I'd be grateful if you would do the same.
Edited by WEvans - 15 Jun 2023 at 20:00 |
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tulip ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Location: W Yorks Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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I have to say I have had a contretemps with WEvans in the past but I do agree with him I’m not quite sure what point you are trying to make at times tigerburnie. But hey let’s all be civil
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tigerburnie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3996 |
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Very clear really I don't hate the Premiership and vehemently support promotion and relegation in and out of all the leagues.
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Halliford ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Feb 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4309 |
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That is an interesting view but one that not all will necessarily share. The pre-18 work by Academies is often dine by local coaches known to the players who work with the schools and colleges. Yes, there is some movement to 6th Form Colleges, sometimes AASE Colleges but that is often where rugby provision at U18 level is limited. I have yet to be convinced that Clubs can di better than Schools at Under 18 level. There may be one or two that stand out but my experience is that the quality of coaching and level of performance is higher in Schools than in Clubs. Implementing a player pathway at Club level is more ch about transitioning the player who doesn’t join an Academy and doesn’t go to University. They are the ones we need to keep in the game and they will often include the late developer. Im thinking here of Charlie Gossington who played as a Junior at Chipstead, joined Esher at age 18 in our Development squad and went in n to play over 100 matches at Level 2and 3 as well as being captain. Do not get me on to the loss of players who don’t continue playing at Uni!
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@boatyjames ![]() British and Irish Lion ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 Aug 2016 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 180 |
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Paul10 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 2023 Location: Milton Keynes Status: Offline Points: 916 |
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I'd say it's preferable that children are taught rugby by teachers rather than coaches.
In reality that only happens for the lucky few. So for the lads in our U13s it's Dave and me when he can't get away from work. |
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SK 88 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 08 Sep 2011 Location: Leicester Status: Offline Points: 614 |
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The RFU got an absolutely terrific value from it last time. Firstly it was not £220m, that figure was theoretical and linked to revenues. When Covid struck the RFU used that clause in a way it was never intended to beggar the clubs by slashing their payments. This is why every Premiership club needed a covid loan and the RFU did not, they just pushed their responsibility away. The RFU receive: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() That's just off the top of my head. It's not a gift in any way, and selling our soul to the RFU is an absolutely core reason why the game has stalled in recent years. Just look at the constant complaints about players missing league matches de-valuing the league. THAT is what the deal pays for. Both the Premiership & to a lesser extent the RFU are actually seeing consistent income growth well above nominal inflation, with the Premiership clubs offering less and less games the ones we offer and becoming more and more efficient at producing cash. The non-sense fact free doom mongering pedalled by the Rugby Paper is massively damaging. Why wouldn't people on this board or in the clubhouse believe it? No one is pushing back with the actual facts which support the counter narrative. The PGA should be considered separately from the P share model which preceded it and which causes a lot of the other issues people hold with the Premiership which I agree with.
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Big Eddie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 5089 |
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SK 88,
the facts are available at Companies House. The filed accounts I have reviewed for Premiership clubs show a bleak picture of clubs only being propped up by their owners.
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''The future isn't what it used to be''
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Redted ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1083 |
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Are they any better/different for Championship clubs?
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Camquin ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 12017 |
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I believe some of the semi-pro clubs towards the bottom of the Championship run within budget. But without TV money, rugby can only ever be semi-professional. With TV money, it can pay a journeyman wage. What it cannot do is pay six, figure salaries to journeymen.
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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Paul10 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 2023 Location: Milton Keynes Status: Offline Points: 916 |
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This is the case in most pro sports, isn't it? Certainly the F1 team I worked for wouldn't exist at the level it is without the owners money. Chelsea FC would have gone bust last year without a new owner.
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Camquin ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 12017 |
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In F1, some are owned by brands, who roll it into the marketing budget. The four car brands Ferrari, Mercedes, Alpine and Aston Martin, plus Red Bull and Alpha Tauri. Though Aston Martin, it may be a case of a rich owner supporting both the brand and the F1 team. Haas made money from machine tools, but I don't to think he uses the racing to sell more. Williams, McLaren and Sauberhave existed as independents for many years, often generating enough money from sponsorship to provide an income for the owner - though none are now owned by the founders. Williams and Sauber are owned by VC companies. |
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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WEvans ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 08 Dec 2016 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1456 |
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One of the main differences of course is that there are always people willing to buy Premier League football clubs whereas practically nobody would consider buying a Premiership rugby club. Whether as a supporter you would want some of these football buyers is of course an entirely different matter.
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tigerburnie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3996 |
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This thing with Wrexham being bought by movie stars has started something as well, my son in law was told St Johnston FC think a Yank with Scottish ancestors is going to buy them, sad really.
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