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End of season grades

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The Blues View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2025 at 00:16
Blues used 44 players in total. Surprised it was that many but in the BIC we did have some extra Saints.

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Big Eddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2025 at 08:59
Originally posted by Se7en Se7en wrote:

I am partial to protracted ramblings too, and have been guilty of them myself from time to time.
However, in the world of top end rugby/a league purporting to aspire to become a more professional entity, only point number 9 really has any bearing on an end of season grade, Big Eddie.
9. The 1st xv won 4 games and were within one score of a win another 6 times throughout the Championship season
A win percentage of approx 18% and a points difference of over -200 is mediocre by any measure, and actually a regression from previous seasons at this level (when you account for the 2 extra games this term).
For services to community club rugby I would say B+, but as a tier 2 club and one of the supposed top 20 or so in England, D-.

Se7en,

Caldy arrived in the Championship through the same rugby model that it has now. As a club it never pushed to be a full time professional club, why would it aspire to that. Professional rugby doesn't work in the UK as 10 technically insolvent Premiership clubs attest to that. Technically insolvent in the sense that all 10 premiership clubs lose money, virtually all of them have balance sheets where liabilities exceed assets (and that is after listing their investment in P shares at a whopping £17m!!) and they are only kept afloat by the largesse of the RFU and by their owners who are all probably desperate for some sort of exit.

Over lunch last Saturday the President of the RFU set out for me and the other guests on our table the vision that new US Investors could buy in to the franchise model take out CVC and everything would be onwards and upwards for rugby in England. 

I don't buy in to this 'theory' at all. When every business in a sector is making a loss the sector is a basket case. With the concussion class action also hanging over rugby it will take a very brave private equity player to bankroll a franchise model in English rugby with the many hundreds more millions that would take.

 CVC take 27% off the top for their previous investment of a few hundred  million which probably gives them a workable yield but I cannot see the exit for them other than another private equity house taking them out. 

I liked rugby as it was and I like how Caldy go about things, I have no interest in professional rugby and the Premiership's broken cartel. Perhaps this makes me a dinosaur
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2025 at 09:34
Originally posted by Ollie B Ollie B wrote:

I do enjoy your ramblings Eddie, if the ravers get between 1500 - 2000 attendance  at twenty pounds a ticket were does the money go?
Obviously not to the players putting their bodies on the line holding down full time jobs .
Are the last of the summer wine club spending it on Werther's and red wine 🤔

Ollie,

I think entrance cost bought in advance online is £15 for adults and numerous concessions for children, under 18s, OAPs and others and after you take out the Vat what comes in will be very substantially less than £20 per head (which is the walk up price at the entrance)

Where does the money go? I am not privy to the finances but I can hazard an educated guess along the following lines.

1.Match day medical requirements for Championship rugby (Ambulance, doctors, paramedics) £65k+ pa
2. Insurances (the RFU doesn't foot this cost for Championship clubs) circa £50k pa
3. Travel costs including at least one overnight stay  (Cornwall, Newcastle (Prem CUP) London, Oxford etc)probably £50k+ pa
4. Other cost
- Pitch maintenance (seed, fertilizer, equipment etc ) £xxk pa
- Senior squad kit £xxk pa
- Other playing supplies balls, training aids etc £xk pa
- Stewarding on match days £xxk pa
- Physio and support staff £xxk pa
- Match fees for 1st xv players £xxk
- Coaching and support staff £xxk
- Sundry other costs £xk pa

The first three costs alone (which I am pretty sure are in the right ball park and may be an underestimate ) are north of £165k pa. Clubs lower down the pyramid won't necessarily have these first 3 costs. Playing in the Championship is an expensive business, the RFU provide circa £100k pa to Championship clubs but this is more than swallowed up by points 1,2 and 3

Other posters will probably have a better idea then me of the full costs of running a team in the Championship 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JZSmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2025 at 11:56
It would be interesting to grade rugby clubs on the likelihood of them still being in existence and still giving enjoyment (the purpose of sport in my opinion) in ten years time.

I'd give Caldy an A+ which is a lot higher than I'd grade the majority of the other 23 so-called professionally run clubs at the top level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeflonTed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2025 at 13:30
Very interesting and informative thread, which I have been following (from Wuss) with interest. Knowing very little about most of the Championship clubs I’ve been trying to do my homework, and this thread has really helped.
As Se7en said a couple of days ago, the recruitment at Wuss (being tediously revealed day by day on social media) has been surprising to say the least. The squad is looking stronger than most of us expected, and from some inside chat we believe the facilities at Sixways have as much to do with attracting players as any over-inflated salaries. 

Our new owner insists that the rugby side of the business must pay for itself. ST sales are now over 3,500 and the big east stand hospitality boxes are all sold. We have not been told the budget, obviously, but there’s clearly enough to fund a side that should hold its own towards the top of the table. 

We hope and expect to contribute some numbers to away games, and we hope to welcome some new friends to Sixways. We do realise there are those who disagree with our relaunch at this level, their frustrations are understood. But that’s for the RFU and owners to worry about, as long serving supporters we just want some rugby. I hope in 12 months time I’ll be back here arguing for at least a B+ for WWs.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2025 at 13:45
3,000 season tickets, plus walk up sales, will certainly give you the largest crowds in the league.

It should mean one of the larger playing budgets.
But, that will depend on how much the stadium costs to run, and how much of that the rugby teams has to pay for.

And by how much owners top up the budget at other clubs. 

We will know how good the side iis, this time next year.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeflonTed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2025 at 15:06
Thanks Camquin, it’s 3,500!

As for the stadium, it has to pay for itself. There are already businesses renting space on site, and regular events in the function rooms, and we have Worcester City FC as 5 year tenants as well. Stadium events are planned too. 

Holland has made it clear he isn’t a sugar daddy, (he doesn’t have the resources anyway) the seed funding is local, and things have just got to pay for themselves, or at least get very close to doing so. The stadium and 48 surrounding acres are a resource that has to be made to work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickyboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 13:13
It’s will be interesting as to how Caldy calculate there attendance as on the 3 occasions I have attended I have never once been asked to produce my ticket. Are the figures calculated on sales or those who attend on the day or guess work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 13:38
Originally posted by Mickyboy Mickyboy wrote:

It’s will be interesting as to how Caldy calculate there attendance as on the 3 occasions I have attended I have never once been asked to produce my ticket. Are the figures calculated on sales or those who attend on the day or guess work.

If you were at Paton Field last week Micky I think you could have very easily estimated a crowd of 2,000+

But to answer your question from my understanding and speaking to those that should know....online tickets do not need to be counted at the gate as the digital record exists .......walk ups will be determined by the cash take.....I suspect there will be an additional number for non paying guests ......maybe you were one of those Micky

I hope that helps with your sums

PS I am pleased that you have enjoyed the delights of the Paton Field Stadium


Edited by Big Eddie - 15 hours 31 minutes ago at 00:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeflonTed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 14:49
It’s been well established that for years Premiership attendances have been based on tickets sold, not bums on seats. Therefore all ST holders are deemed to have been present.

I see no reason why that would be any different in The Champ. 

But that’s a guess!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 hours 35 minutes ago at 16:12
Blues definitely count them in, as they have tickers when they use the blue gate for vehicles to count them in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 20 minutes ago at 08:27
Originally posted by Se7en Se7en wrote:

Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Failure by Caldy and Cambridge?
2 clubs that run multiple teams and age groups and compete in the Championship.

Hats off to them and Chinnor I  say. Incredible achievements, and bring youngsters to the game.

From what I understood FHLH was highlighting the 'comparitive' failure of Cambridge and Caldy to Chinnor, three clubs of very similar resources, playing pool, reliance on DR, journey through the leagues to tier 2 etc, rather than saying that Cambridge and Caldy were outright failures.

I cannot comment on Chinnor and Cambridge but Caldy are absolutely not reliant on DR. This is not what Caldy is about

Caldy generally have one or two young Sale Sharks players in their match day squad of 23. In some Championship matches this season there were no DR players and on a very few occasions there were 3 or 4 DR players in the match day squad.

Tristan Woodman an excellent openside played the most throughout the season in I would reckon more than half the games.

The teams that I am fairly certain have made signficantly greater use of DR than Caldy.....Ampthill, London Scottish, Hartpury, Bedford, Cornish Pirates, Nottingham, 

Perhaps others can confirm my view


Edited by Big Eddie - 7 hours 18 minutes ago at 08:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Se7en Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 15 minutes ago at 09:32
From what I understood FHLH was highlighting the 'comparitive' failure of Cambridge and Caldy to Chinnor, three clubs of very similar resources, playing pool, reliance on DR, journey through the leagues to tier 2 etc, rather than saying that Cambridge and Caldy were outright failures.
[/QUOTE]

I cannot comment on Chinnor and Cambridge but Caldy are absolutely not reliant on DR. This is not what Caldy is about

Caldy generally have one or two young Sale Sharks players in their match day squad of 23. In some Championship matches this season there were no DR players and on a very few occasions there were 3 or 4 DR players in the match day squad.

Tristan Woodman an excellent openside played the most throughout the season in I would reckon more than half the games.

The teams that I am fairly certain have made signficantly greater use of DR than Caldy.....Ampthill, London Scottish, Hartpury, Bedford, Cornish Pirates, Nottingham, 

Perhaps others can confirm my view
[/QUOTE]

You have misunderstood what I was getting at, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. 

My reference to Cambs, Chinnor, Caldy's reliance on DR players was to highlight that across those 3 clubs, there are a similar amount. That's not to say that it is many, just similar.

By my reckoning over the last few of seasons Caldy have employed/relied on the following DRs to varying degrees in their 1XV matchday squads:

Nye Thomas
Reuben Birch
Tristan Woodman
Elliot Gourlay
Ethan Caine
Reketi Ma-asi White
Tom Curtis
Jacob Tansey

You are quite right Big Eddie insomuch as other Championship squads have relied on many more DRs, which I know has been discussed at length on other threads.


Edited by Se7en - 4 hours 20 minutes ago at 11:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 3 minutes ago at 11:44
Seven,

See below

Nye Thomas - not in 2024/25
Reuben Birch -  a few games in 23/24 but not in 2024/25
Tristan Woodman - played the majority of Caldy games 23/24 & 24/25
Elliot Gourlay - ever present for Caldy in 2020/21 in National leagues but hasn't featured for Caldy in the Championship 
Ethan Caine - 2 or 3 games in 2022/23 and possibly one game in 2023/24 but not in 2024/25
Reketi Ma-asi White 40 minutes in 2023/24 before doing his hamstring, 1 game in 2024/25
Tom Curtis two or three games at the beginning of 2024/25 season but not since.
Jacob Tansey signed for Caldy from Sedgley Park in August 2024 

Other than as indicated above I think the Sale Sharks players who have been utilised by Caldy this season have generally been Sale Academy/under 21 players with the possible exception of Joe Bedlow, James Harper and Alex Groves who have notched up a few appearances.

I would absolutely commend the 4 or 5 young Sharks Academy lads who have featured, I think all were under 20 with at least 3 being only 18. They gave everything they had and I hope they enjoyed becoming a Raver if only for part of a game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Se7en Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 41 minutes ago at 12:06
Yes a good experience for many young players no doubt. 

I believe that if you compiled a similar list to the one above in respect of Cambridge and Chinnor's degree of dependency on DRs, they would be of similar length.

Of note, Elliot Gourlay did play several Championship games for Caldy, including a 50th cap appereance, before being taken on by Leicester Tigers.



Edited by Se7en - 3 hours 26 minutes ago at 12:21
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