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Vote on easing rules on player Test team switches

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Thunderbird View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thunderbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2023 at 14:47
These laws seem to change depending on the direction of the wind. Surely if you decide to play for Canada that is it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimbojetset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2023 at 15:01
Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Qualification should stop with passport held. End. None of this grandmother lark.
My kids have two passports (dual nationals), I have friends with three, Dual nationals due to parents and one due to place of birth. Never as easy as you think. Especially in countries with more porous borders and large migrant populations, nationality isn't always that simple.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2023 at 15:55
Originally posted by jimbojetset jimbojetset wrote:

Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Qualification should stop with passport held. End. None of this grandmother lark.
My kids have two passports (dual nationals), I have friends with three, Dual nationals due to parents and one due to place of birth. Never as easy as you think. Especially in countries with more porous borders and large migrant populations, nationality isn't always that simple.

Very true it isn't but in my opinion once you reach eighteen and you have played for one country (irrespective of sport) then that's it. In my experience most folks with dual nationalities/qualifications know which is "their country" the country they feel most allegiance to and you should play for your country and not someone else's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimbojetset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2023 at 16:08
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Originally posted by jimbojetset jimbojetset wrote:

Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Qualification should stop with passport held. End. None of this grandmother lark.
My kids have two passports (dual nationals), I have friends with three, Dual nationals due to parents and one due to place of birth. Never as easy as you think. Especially in countries with more porous borders and large migrant populations, nationality isn't always that simple.

Very true it isn't but in my opinion once you reach eighteen and you have played for one country (irrespective of sport) then that's it. In my experience most folks with dual nationalities/qualifications know which is "their country" the country they feel most allegiance to and you should play for your country and not someone else's.

"their country"? My kids would disagree. They see both as their country. What you're suggesting is an easy fix with someone who has no ties to another country. But, that's not the case for all people. For example, my kids support one country for one sport, but another for other sports. It's because they feel part of both countries. You are allowed to have an allegiance to two countries, unless there's some weird rule I've not come across? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2023 at 16:15
The 3 year rule was introduced mainly to prevent the myriads of South Sea islanders from being unable to play for the nation of their birth (or heritage) after bee given 1 or 2 tests by New Zealand or Australia then discarded.

A cynic would suggest that this approach was to ensure they didn't play against NZ or Aus
RAID ON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donnyladinsheffield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2023 at 18:16
I have some sympathy with the sentiments behind the passport comment but it falls down before you get to dual nationals and those with more than one passport. 

I hold a UK passportTongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2023 at 12:29
Originally posted by jimbojetset jimbojetset wrote:

Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Originally posted by jimbojetset jimbojetset wrote:

Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Qualification should stop with passport held. End. None of this grandmother lark.
My kids have two passports (dual nationals), I have friends with three, Dual nationals due to parents and one due to place of birth. Never as easy as you think. Especially in countries with more porous borders and large migrant populations, nationality isn't always that simple.

Very true it isn't but in my opinion once you reach eighteen and you have played for one country (irrespective of sport) then that's it. In my experience most folks with dual nationalities/qualifications know which is "their country" the country they feel most allegiance to and you should play for your country and not someone else's.

"their country"? My kids would disagree. They see both as their country. What you're suggesting is an easy fix with someone who has no ties to another country. But, that's not the case for all people. For example, my kids support one country for one sport, but another for other sports. It's because they feel part of both countries. You are allowed to have an allegiance to two countries, unless there's some weird rule I've not come across? 

Let's not be silly.
 
I didn't say you couldn't have an allegiance to multiple countries I said that in my experience people in that situation (and I am one) have more of an allegiance to one country.   

And supporting countries is hugely different from playing for a country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2023 at 13:42
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

And supporting countries is hugely different from playing for a country.

Clap

I cannot support the idea of playing for multiple countries throughout your playing career - but then players are a business commodity and seek the highest return, which is sad, but then I'm from a different era when playing for your country was an honour rather than a means to an end





Edited by FHLH - 26 Mar 2023 at 14:56
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 12:37
Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

And supporting countries is hugely different from playing for a country.

Clap

I cannot support the idea of playing for multiple countries throughout your playing career - but then players are a business commodity and seek the highest return, which is sad, but then I'm from a different era when playing for your country was an honour rather than a means to an end




You and me both FHLH!

I remember the story the late Emlyn Hughes told about Don Revie just after he became England manager. He called the players together for an urgent meeting. Anticipating some news about Revie's plans, tactics and so on the players eagerly attended to hear Revie tell them that he had some very important news - he had negotiated a small increase in their appearance money. Hughes said he and Alan Ball looked at each other and shook their heads. Revie didn't realise that we would have paid them to play Hughes said.

(Years later of course we learnt that Revie would have probably taken the money from them had he known!). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 13:52
Samoa call up one-cap England back Umaga

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Former Wasps fly-half Jacob Umaga, who was capped by England in 2021, has been called up by Samoa for the first time.

The 26-year-old moved to Italian side Benetton Treviso when Wasps went bust in 2022, helping them to finish 10th in the United Rugby Championship this season.

Umaga, initially brought into former coach Eddie Jones' England squad as an apprentice player during the 2020 Six Nations, came off the bench to win his only senior cap in the 43-29 win over the United States in July 2021.

A change to World Rugby's rules in 2022 allows players to represent a second nation at international level after three years out of the Test game.

Umaga was born in Halifax after his father Mike, a Samoa international, moved to England to play rugby league. Mike later switched codes to play union for Rotherham.

Tana Umaga, the legendary New Zealand centre, is Jacob's uncle.

Jacob is part of a 35-strong squad that will prepare for Samoa's July Test against Scotland in Auckland, New Zealand, and August's Pacific Nations Cup campaign.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 16:37
Originally posted by Steve@Mose Steve@Mose wrote:

Samoa call up one-cap England back Umaga

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Former Wasps fly-half Jacob Umaga, who was capped by England in 2021, has been called up by Samoa for the first time.

The 26-year-old moved to Italian side Benetton Treviso when Wasps went bust in 2022, helping them to finish 10th in the United Rugby Championship this season.

Umaga, initially brought into former coach Eddie Jones' England squad as an apprentice player during the 2020 Six Nations, came off the bench to win his only senior cap in the 43-29 win over the United States in July 2021.

A change to World Rugby's rules in 2022 allows players to represent a second nation at international level after three years out of the Test game.

Umaga was born in Halifax after his father Mike, a Samoa international, moved to England to play rugby league. Mike later switched codes to play union for Rotherham.

Tana Umaga, the legendary New Zealand centre, is Jacob's uncle.

Jacob is part of a 35-strong squad that will prepare for Samoa's July Test against Scotland in Auckland, New Zealand, and August's Pacific Nations Cup campaign.

More evidence of why the RFU need to drop this "You must play in England" rule.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Se7en Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 hours 19 minutes ago at 17:13
I'm not sure the RFU need to change their policy with this, especially if it was for Jacob Umaga who would not get in the England squad were he playing here or not. If it was his uncle, Tana Umaga, that might be different! (Although I still wince thinking about his dirty tackle on O'Driscoll in 2005).

In my opinion, with the exception of perhaps Jack Willis (in the highly competetive back row position - Curry, Curry, Earl, Pollock, T Willis, CCS) and Henry Arundell at a push, there are currently no foreign based players who would get into the England team if the rules were changed.


Edited by Se7en - 23 hours 17 minutes ago at 17:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 hours 49 minutes ago at 19:43
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Steve@Mose Steve@Mose wrote:

Samoa call up one-cap England back Umaga

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Former Wasps fly-half Jacob Umaga, who was capped by England in 2021, has been called up by Samoa for the first time.

The 26-year-old moved to Italian side Benetton Treviso when Wasps went bust in 2022, helping them to finish 10th in the United Rugby Championship this season.

Umaga, initially brought into former coach Eddie Jones' England squad as an apprentice player during the 2020 Six Nations, came off the bench to win his only senior cap in the 43-29 win over the United States in July 2021.

A change to World Rugby's rules in 2022 allows players to represent a second nation at international level after three years out of the Test game.

Umaga was born in Halifax after his father Mike, a Samoa international, moved to England to play rugby league. Mike later switched codes to play union for Rotherham.

Tana Umaga, the legendary New Zealand centre, is Jacob's uncle.

Jacob is part of a 35-strong squad that will prepare for Samoa's July Test against Scotland in Auckland, New Zealand, and August's Pacific Nations Cup campaign.

More evidence of why the RFU need to drop this "You must play in England" rule.

How is this any reason to change the foreign-based rule? There may be potential reasons to change it, but I don’t see why an Italian based player being chosen by Samoa is one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JZSmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 5 minutes ago at 11:27
I'm sure there are many people would like to see Jacob Umaga in the England team but I suspect very few of them support England!
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