Print Page | Close Window

Welsh Rugby financial woes

Printed From: National League Rugby Discussion Forum
Category: League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk
Forum Name: Clubhouse chat
Forum Description: For rugby related posts that fit nowhere else.. When you're ready Sandra.
URL: http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=19728
Printed Date: 19 May 2025 at 14:11
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Welsh Rugby financial woes
Posted By: Steve@Mose
Subject: Welsh Rugby financial woes
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2023 at 11:13
Looks like financial crises are not restricted to this side of Offa's Dyke.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65104927" rel="nofollow - Llanelli pull out of next season's Welsh Premiership

Quote
Llanelli RFC will withdraw from the Welsh Premiership for the 2023/24 season.

The club said it will be unable to field a team next season due to extra games in an expanded Welsh Premiership.

It will also face a greater demand to provide players to the Scarlets, who face drastic budget cuts as well as potential World Cup call-ups.

Scarlets heritage director Rupert Moon said the decision was "for the good" of Llanelli and the region.

The Welsh Rugby Union said it has "sympathy" for Llanelli and has offered support.

It has also called a meeting of the community game board for Wednesday to discuss the club's decision.

Insiders at the club, one of the 11 founding clubs of the WRU in 1881, feel they are facing a perfect storm next year.

The combination of additional games, the impact of the World Cup on the United Rugby Championship calendar, national squad requirements and regions slashing the sizes of their squads due to budget cuts will all take their toll.

However, they insist it is not the end for one of the most famous names in world club rugby.

The club said it would play "competitive friendlies" against opposition - as it did against Saracens this month - to continue developing players for Scarlets.

Moon added: "Llanelli RFC can be stronger and more focused as a result of this decision with a streamlined and structured season focusing solely on player development, training and support.

"The new-look Premiership next season is not a model for player development.

"The semi-pro and pro rugby seasons don't align. The pressures of a 30-fixture season without senior development players, plus increased financial pressures and player availability issues in a World Cup year means competing next season in the Premiership competition is just not possible.

"Llanelli RFC simply would not be able to fulfil all its fixtures next season, which would disrupt the competition and stretch resources too far, detracting from its key purpose to bring young players through."



Replies:
Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2023 at 11:19
Llanelli are bottom of their league at present. Is it automatic relegation for bottom side. 

-------------
Cauliflower ear.


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2023 at 12:32
Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

Llanelli are bottom of their league at present. Is it automatic relegation for bottom side. 
The league is expanding from 12 clubs to 14 next year, so there is no relegation this season.


Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2023 at 12:47
So potentially Pontypool, Neath and Bargoed come up, if current standings remain the same. 

-------------
Cauliflower ear.


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2023 at 06:58
Isn't there talk of a 8 club league to bridge the gap between the Regions and the rest? 

-------------
Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2023 at 07:46
Yes, that's the following year.  So after they've expanded the Premiership to 14 clubs they'll put in a new 8-team tier.  Welcome to Welsh Rugby.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2023 at 19:54
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

Yes, that's the following year.  So after they've expanded the Premiership to 14 clubs they'll put in a new 8-team tier.  Welcome to Welsh Rugby.


They seem to be borrowing the RFU playbook

-------------
RAID ON


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2023 at 20:25
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

Yes, that's the following year.  So after they've expanded the Premiership to 14 clubs they'll put in a new 8-team tier.  Welcome to Welsh Rugby.

Are they throwing in an end of season cup too 😉


-------------
Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2023 at 19:38
Where does this leave Ealing?

https://www.wru.wales/2023/03/professional-rugby-board-signs-new-six-year-deal/" rel="nofollow - https://www.wru.wales/2023/03/professional-rugby-board-signs-new-six-year-deal/


-------------
Crouch, Bind, Tweet!


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2023 at 22:12
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Where does this leave Ealing?

https://www.wru.wales/2023/03/professional-rugby-board-signs-new-six-year-deal/" rel="nofollow - https://www.wru.wales/2023/03/professional-rugby-board-signs-new-six-year-deal/

Probably means there will be no Ealing Welsh 


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2023 at 10:43
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Where does this leave Ealing?

https://www.wru.wales/2023/03/professional-rugby-board-signs-new-six-year-deal/" rel="nofollow - https://www.wru.wales/2023/03/professional-rugby-board-signs-new-six-year-deal/

I can't see nothing in this deal to stop the Ealing Ospreys 'merger' or whatever deal was being discussed.

Under this agreement nothing seems to suggest that the Ospreys have to be based in Wales. The RFU would have to ratify a deal involving Ealing playing in the URC from London.

If it does scupper any plans It makes me even more confused what Ealing's long term plans are, considering they haven't gone down the minimum ground criteria or launch legal action against said criteria. 


-------------
Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2023 at 11:46
Ealing were never ever going to merge with any side outside of England anymore than London Scottish were, the cartels won't allow it and legally they can block it.


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2023 at 17:21
Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

Ealing were never ever going to merge with any side outside of England anymore than London Scottish were, the cartels won't allow it and legally they can block it.

Exactly tigerburnie. It does make you wonder what Ealing's plans actually are though bearing in mind it seems they didn't even submitted the paperwork to be considered for promotion.

Maybe their plan is to stay where they are and wait for all the Premiership clubs to go the way of Wasps and Worcester and be subsequently placed in the Championship which will then become the country's premier league? 


Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 15:51
Maybe the rumoured two pro leagues of 10 has been dangled as a carrot, as long as there is promotion/relegation and proper support for both of the leagues, then it might work.


Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2023 at 16:27
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66613532" rel="nofollow - Elite Domestic Competition: New 10-team league to replace Welsh Premiership in 2024-25

Quote
Welsh rugby's top men's domestic competition will be replaced and the number of teams reduced from 13 to 10 from the 2024-25 season by a "finishing school" for rising talent.

The existing Indigo Welsh Premiership clubs can each apply for one of those 10 slots.

Criteria for the Elite Domestic Competition (EDC) have yet to be finalised.

But north Wales will be represented by RGC with nine teams from south Wales.

...

Clubs will be able to apply to be a part of the new set-up from September with a decision made on their inclusion expected at the end of 2023.

Team performance in 2023-24 season will not be one of the criteria for inclusion in the new competition.

WRU performance director Huw Bevan said the aim of the new structure is to ensure "the players in the academy systems are getting consistent opportunities to play in a competitive environment".

He added: "Ideally it'll be a 10-team league and based on an eligibility criteria that all the clubs will have to fulfil, we can manage eight teams but our strong preference would be for a 10-team competition.

"Once the clubs have submitted their expressions of interest, they will be submitted with a club pack that will outline terms and conditions, basic eligibility criteria and the criteria by which each club will be evaluated."

...

Ringfenced for three seasons

From 2024-25 the league will be ringfenced for three seasons with no promotion or relegation, but clubs will have to maintain standards to stay in the EDC.

"The league will be ringfenced for a three-year period initially, all clubs will have to fulfil the criteria to be eligible to play," said Bevan.

"The clubs will have to achieve and maintain the criteria, if they don't continue to fulfil criteria then their eligibility will be reviewed."

Applications will be assessed by a review panel which has yet to be appointed, comprising of one WRU representative and two independent panel members.

John emphasised RGC's status, saying: "North Wales is strategically important for the WRU, which is why RGC will be one of the clubs participating in the EDC.

"Any remaining places, subject to criteria being met, will be allocated to the clubs that have achieved the highest scores from the points-based criteria selection process."

In order to ensure the league is sustainable, a salary cap will be included within the rules of the competition at the request of the clubs.

Additional changes

Lower down in the Admiral National League, all divisions below the Championship East and West will be reduced from 12 to 10 teams to limit the number of games played.

"Over the past two seasons a number of games have had to be rearranged or played at the end of the normal season which has caused extension and a number of games in a small space of time, which is not desirable from a player welfare perspective," said John.

"We should allow capacity for rearrangements to be played on Saturdays to help supporters and club revenues.

"Following our discussions, we have concluded the suitable number of participating teams at the top end of the Admiral Leagues is 12 teams, with the number reducing to 10 lower down the pyramid."

Additionally, there have been amendments to the concussion protocols, with players stood down for 21 days to align with the UK government, while rules and regulations within the women's game have been adapted to mirror those in the men's.


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2023 at 13:05
"Team performance in 2023-24 season will not be one of the criteria for inclusion in the new competition."

Is all you need to know. The incompetence continues.  


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2023 at 13:08
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

"Team performance in 2023-24 season will not be one of the criteria for inclusion in the new competition."

Is all you need to know. The incompetence continues.  

The RFU did the same co,ck-up when they set up the Women's Premier 15s. Litchfield got kicked out (despite finishing 3rd) so Gloucester-Hartpury and Loughborough (despite never competing in the old Women's Premiership or women's rugby pyramid) could get in. Not to mention they allowed Harlequins to fully steal Aylesford's women's team in the process. And they did it again in 2020 when they kicked out Richmond and Waterloo to let Exeter and Sale get in (despite only just being formed and there still being a women's pyramid below them).

The WRU are clearly doing the same here by guaranteeing their pet project of RGC a place. It is disgusting that sporting merit is being killed in rugby in order to allow the blazers in the Old Boys Club to keep their favourite clubs at the top.


Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2023 at 10:01
WRU demonstrating lousy timing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67151337" rel="nofollow - Barbarians fixture clash with regional derby wrong admits WRU boss Nigel Walker

Quote
Welsh Rugby Union interim chief Nigel Walker has admitted it was a mistake to allow Wales' match against Barbarians to clash with a regional derby.

Warren Gatland's side take on the famous invitation club on 4 November at Cardiff's Principality Stadium.

The match is billed as a farewell to record cap-holder Alun Wyn Jones, who will play for the Barbarians.

However it will finish little more than an hour before Scarlets face Cardiff in the United Rugby Championship (URC).

Welsh derbies are some of the biggest money-spinners for the regions who are facing even tougher financial cuts this season.

Cardiff supporters accused the WRU of undermining regional rugby with a "staggering short-term fix" in a letter of protest to the new WRU chair Richard Collier-Keywood.

Walker said the Barbarians date, also seen as a vital revenue raiser by the WRU following the loss of the usual November Tests because of the World Cup, had been agreed before the URC fixtures were announced.

However, he added: "It's not great that they're on the same day and I can assure people that it won't happen again.

"It's not URC's fault. We should have stuck it out when we were sat at the table and said the derby can't be on that day.


Posted By: Paul10
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2023 at 10:50
No one can screw things up quite like the WRU.

There's a derby scarlets v Cardiff at the same time as this pointless extra international.


Posted By: clieves
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2023 at 10:51
Hardly a derby - 60 miles apart ... Cardiff v Newport, Llanelli v Swansea are the local derbies


Posted By: Paul10
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2023 at 11:10
It should be one of Scarlets biggest home gates of the season.

Yes. Ospreys is the true Derby.


Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2025 at 00:25
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/c0r5qy9zlrzo" rel="nofollow - Cardiff set for administration with WRU in line for takeover

Quote
Cardiff Rugby will declare their intention to go into administration with the Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) in line for a takeover of the regional side.

The Welsh professional rugby team has served a notice of intent (NOI) to appoint an administrator.

That is a formal document filed in court by a company or its directors to inform parties the company intends to enter administration, a process aimed at rescuing a struggling business from liquidation.

Cardiff staff, including players and coaches, held an emergency meeting on Tuesday afternoon with chief executive Richard Holland.

A statement read: "Cardiff Rugby can confirm notice of intention to appoint administrators has been filed.

"Please rest assured everything possible is being done to protect our employees and the future of the club.

"We have a plan in place and we will update you as soon as possible."

The WRU cannot officially step in straight away but is set to support Cardiff by initially taking on the day-to-day running of the organisation.

A WRU statement said: "We are aware Cardiff Rugby have confirmed notice of intention to appoint administrators, and we are working closely with the Cardiff Board and the administrators to safeguard the future of professional rugby in Cardiff."

The CF10 Rugby Trust reassured its members they would do their "utmost to ensure the survival of our great capital city club".

A statement from chair Lynn Glaister on behalf of the Trust read: "Whilst shocked at the news we now need to look to the future."

Investment group Helford Capital Limited completed a Cardiff takeover in January 2024 after it acquired an 84.55% shareholding in the regional team.

The news of Cardiff's administration comes with the WRU due to announce a new deal with all four Welsh professional sides - called the Professional Rugby Agreement (PRA) - as part of the "One Wales" strategy through until 2029.

The premise is based on the four regions - Cardiff, Dragons, Ospreys and Scarlets - being functioning independent businesses with private investment.

Who are the Cardiff owners?

The investment of Helford Capital Limited in Cardiff Rugby was led by British businessmen Phil Kempe and Neal Griffith, who are on the region's board.

Kempe is a Welshman with an association stretching back more than a decade with the club.

Cardiff said at the time that Kempe had a range of successful business interests across multiple industries in the UK, Canada and the Middle East.

Griffith, who also has Welsh roots, is a former investment banker with numerous global business interests as an investor and director.

The duo had significant business relationships in the United Arab Emirates, which they said they planned to leverage for Cardiff's benefit.

The takeover followed the death of former chairman and benefactor Peter Thomas in March 2023.

The deal secured the minor stake of the Thomas family and other significant shareholders.

The takeover was approved by a "99.99% majority" at Cardiff's general meeting.

The investment group gained approval from the Cardiff board, the WRU and the Cardiff Athletic Club, which retained a minority shareholding in the club.

The due diligence test was undertaken by an independent London-based company.

Cardiff Rugby chair Alun Jones said the takeover would "represent a huge moment in the history of Cardiff Rugby and gives us a bright, secure and exciting future".

What will this all mean?

If the WRU takes over in the short term it could be searching for new long-term investors.

The union could consider taking over permanent ownership of the side but that is something it has attempted to avoid in the past, highlighted by the return of Dragons to private ownership in 2023.

It is set to be business as usual with Cardiff having four United Rugby Championship (URC) games left this season, which will be fulfilled with Matt Sherratt's side still having hopes of finishing in the top eight and qualifying for the play-offs.

Their next fixture is against Ospreys on Saturday, 19 April at the Principality Stadium. They are then scheduled to host Munster at the Arms Park six days later.

It is understood the plan is to honour contracts and the new signings who have been announced by Cardiff should join up with the squad in the summer.

Unlike football, there are understood to be no automatic points deduction from the URC if a team goes into administration.

Rugby finance issues

The state of rugby finances is under the microscope with London Irish, Wasps and Worcester having all gone out of business during the 2022-23 season, leaving the top flight of English rugby with only 10 teams.

In Wales in 2003, five professional regions were created from the club game before Celtic Warriors were disbanded in 2004.

In 2017, the WRU stepped in to be the majority stakeholder at Dragons following financial difficulties. The Newport-based side were eventually returned to private investment in 2023.

In March 2024, Cardiff announced a loss of £2.1m for the year ending June 2023, with the next set of accounts due in May 2025.

Both Ospreys and Scarlets have recently announced losses of more than £2m for the year ending June 2024.

The current budgets for the four Welsh professional sides is £4.5m. That is planned to rise to £5.1m and then to more than £6m in the coming seasons.


Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 18 May 2025 at 13:04
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cm26jmd34qgo" rel="nofollow - WRU unveils new unequal funding for regions

Quote
The future structure of Welsh professional rugby is in doubt after the Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) announced its four regions will no longer be equally funded.

The governing body made the announcement amid reports it intends to cut a team from its professional tier. The WRU has neither confirmed nor denied if cutting a team is part of its plans.

But WRU bosses intend to implement a new two-tier funding system after serving a two-year notice on the current agreement that underpins the Welsh professional game.

That current Professional Rugby Agreement (PRA) deal runs out in 2027 although it was due to be superseded by a new five-year deal that Ospreys and Scarlets have not signed.

Wales' four professional regions were given a deadline to sign the new PRA by 8 May, but only WRU-owned Cardiff and privately-owned Dragons put pen to paper.

The four sides are expected to continue to exist in their current form until at least June 2027 when the old PRA runs out, but the future of the organisations will be under scrutiny.

There is no mention in the WRU statement that it will cut a region reducing the number to three professional sides.

The governing body says it has an "open mind to all constructive and realistic proposals on the way forward".

"We are continuing to talk to all four clubs about what the future will hold," said WRU chief executive Abi Tierney.

"We recognise this will be a time of uncertainty and are committed to treating all the clubs, players, and supporters with respect and fairness throughout this process.

"We acknowledge the continued commitment of each club to Welsh rugby and will formulate a new plan with the best interests of the whole game in Wales at the forefront of our thinking."

Why have the WRU changed course?

The WRU had continually insisted maintaining four professional sides on an equal footing was at the heart of its long-term strategy that was launched in 2024.

The governing body says that was the preference from the outset, but the system will not return to the model "given seismic changes in the rugby landscape".

The WRU now says it has taken "the difficult but necessary decision" to issue the formal two-year notice to terminate the current PRA agreement, in particular, to proceed with its debt refinancing with its bank NatWest.

They say it was not a decision that was taken lightly, however "given the WRU's duties to the game in Wales as a whole, the broader performance, financial and strategic needs of the game must take precedence".

"When I announced the headline strategy back in July 2024, I said one thing is for certain, given the challenges facing rugby in Wales and globally, there will be times when we need to adjust our course," said Tierney.

"We must seize this opportunity. Our continued aim is to build a resilient and world-class structure that will support Welsh rugby's next generation and beyond."

The Professional Rugby Board (PRB) is the organisation set up to represent the four professional sides and the WRU.

"The next phase of consultation, as always, will be conducted with the best interests of the whole of Welsh rugby at its heart," said PRB chair Malcolm Wall, who is also a WRU board member.

How did we get here?

The WRU and regions have been trying to get the new PRA over the line after months of negotiations.

The deal included increased and fixed funding rising up to £6.5m in the next few years - compared with the current £4.5m - from next season.

When the WRU took over Cardiff as it went into administration in April, the governing body absorbed around £9m of the capital city team's debts and spent £780,00 in fees in the process.

It is understood that having signed the new deal, Cardiff and Dragons will receive the new figures while Ospreys and Scarlets will have the old funding.

A glimmer of hope was offered in February when the PRA had been agreed in principle, with all parties ready to sign at the beginning of April.

The process was derailed when Cardiff went into temporary administration and was taken over by the WRU.

Scarlets and Ospreys had said they would not sign until they had further clarity from the WRU, with the two west Wales sides stating they wanted some "key issues" resolved after Cardiff's takeover.

But with Scarlets and Ospreys waiting on a response, the WRU had an option to serve a two-year notice on their current PRA deal.

They agreed to this drastic measure at a WRU board meeting last week before formally telling Ospreys and Scarlets of this intention and their decision not to have four equally funded businesses.

What happens now?

In the WRU announcement there is no official direct mention of cutting a region and reducing to three professional sides, but all supporters, players and coaches will be concerned about the latest crisis to hit Welsh rugby.

The WRU has a contractual commitment to provide four sides for the URC and European commitments and will face financial penalties of around £5m if that is not fulfilled.

WRU chief executive Tierney even used this as one of the reasons for the Cardiff takeover by stating it was more financially prudent to maintain four professional sides.

Ospreys and Scarlets are meeting to consider their response and are understood to have sought legal advice. They are also expected to respond in the coming hours.

Dragons have welcomed the WRU announcement saying they are delighted to have signed a deal which "provides the club with three years of agreed fixed funding".

A Dragons statement read: "We did so to demonstrate our commitment to provide stability and security to Dragons RFC as we continue to develop on and off the field.

"As demonstrated by signing the agreement, our owners are committed to the long-term future of professional rugby and the financial stability of Dragons RFC."



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net